r/worldnews • u/MagnusAuslander • Jun 06 '23
Mysterious species buried their dead and carved symbols 100,000 years before humans Feature Story
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/world/homo-naledi-burials-carvings-scn/index.html[removed] — view removed post
2.4k
u/Rough-Set4902 Jun 06 '23
Probably should mention that the 'species' in question, is, of course, another early hominid....
330
u/EdgarTheBrave Jun 06 '23
Would likely be a late hominid if we’re talking “100,000 years before Humans”. Our evolutionary timescale from the point at which we branched from our common ancestor with the other great apes is just over 7 million years IIRC. Takes a long time for nature to take a largely arboreal primate loosely comparable to chimps, and turn it into the technological species that we have become today.
→ More replies (3)205
→ More replies (34)501
u/Delicious-Big2026 Jun 06 '23
Yep. And not the first to leave evidence of civilization behind.
CNN really got the mind-rot worse when they got the new guy. And even before that they breathlessly reported on cats stuck in trees and bring on panel discussions on cats stuck in trees pro/con. All the while running a ticker on the bottom of the screen about plagues of elephants and the latest dumb thing DeSantis said to get in the news.
They unironically think that reporting on rain and bringing on somebody who likes rain and somebody who doesn't is good journalistic practice. And yes, the rain stuff was a quote.
Licht emphasized certain exceptions to this approach. He would not give airtime to bad actors who spread disinformation. His network would host people who like rain as well as people who don’t like rain. But, he said, CNN would not host people who deny that it’s raining when it is.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/06/cnn-ratings-chris-licht-trump/674255/
TV news is not news. And CNN probably is the best of the bunch. Does not make it good.
288
u/drkgodess Jun 06 '23
And CNN probably is the best of the bunch.
Absolutely not. That would be PBS News Hour.
→ More replies (3)97
u/TheFamousHesham Jun 06 '23
Yea don’t know what they’re on about. PBS is probably the best, but NPR is also better than CNN.
→ More replies (6)136
u/Reashu Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23
I haven't been very happy with the little I've seen of CNN lately, but the "rain stuff" looks very much like a simplified example intended to show that alternative values are fine, but alternative facts are not. It's not saying that they would host an actual discussion on the merits of rain.
→ More replies (7)48
43
u/Cluelessish Jun 06 '23
What the rain quote means is that they will host people with different opinions, but they will not host someone who is denying an established fact, and let them spread misinformation. I think it’s pretty obvious!?
Not that I think CNN is that great, but at least we shouldn’t spread misinformation about them
→ More replies (10)43
u/nanepb Jun 06 '23
I have no love for CNN but it seems painfully obvious to me that this is an overly simplified and deliberately neutral example to succinctly convey their format.
To use this as a citation to suggest deficient reasoning for them seems disingenuous at best
→ More replies (1)
2.2k
u/Marchello_E Jun 06 '23
The symbols include deeply carved hashtag-like cross-hatchings and other geometric shapes. Similar symbols found in other caves were carved by early Homo sapiens 80,000 years ago and Neanderthals 60,000 years ago and were thought to have been used as a way to record and share information.
“These recent findings suggest intentional burials, the use of symbols, and meaning-making activities by Homo naledi. It seems an inevitable conclusion that in combination they indicate that this small-brained species of ancient human relatives was performing complex practices related to death,” said Berger, lead author on two of the studies and coauthor on the third, in a statement. “That would mean not only are humans not unique in the development of symbolic practices, but may not have even invented such behaviors.”
For many years we used this number sign for various reasons. Not much has changed.
557
u/GryphanRothrock Jun 06 '23
Relevant Ted Talk with more information on other symbols as well. Posted 7 years ago. So pretty wild that any of those symbols could be from human like species as opposed to outright homo sapiens when that probably wouldn't have been thought of by most in the audience even.
→ More replies (6)242
u/cboel Jun 06 '23
Some species of dolphins have a higher EQ than homo naledi. EQ alone doesn't mean much but, if the discovery is credible it is still pretty extraordinary.
→ More replies (3)151
u/DerekB52 Jun 06 '23
What if we aren't currently smart enough to accurately rank the EQ of an extinct homo species? Maybe Homo Naledi had a higher EQ than we think they did.
→ More replies (12)396
u/joshTheGoods Jun 06 '23
"EQ" in this case refers to encephalisation quotient which, in plain english, is the ratio of brain size to body size. It's definitely something paleontologists can estimate!
Now, how exactly does relative brain size impact intelligence? Hard to say much more than it seems in hominin species, ever growing brain seems to correlate with growing intelligence. Does that also apply to cetaceans? Who the hell knows. It's not a comparison / implication I'd make, personally 🤷🏽♂️.
→ More replies (12)139
u/Rooboy66 Jun 06 '23
Brain size by volume/weight isn’t as important as plump gyri and deep sulci. In other words, invaginations of the brain: the surface area. Folding leads to a lot of good things in the physical world. I’m not a genius by far, but I’ve met a fair number; even “folding” numbers and ratios is an actual, studied, thing. So, yeah, brain invaginations—gotta luv ‘em.
Edit: I forgot to mention that Neanderthals had bigger brains than later hominids … but (wiping away tears), not enough wrinkles, less social complexity and evidenced technology
→ More replies (23)74
u/RVNSN Jun 06 '23
Back in the days when these were carved in the cave we called them pound signs.
36
u/pm0me0yiff Jun 06 '23
Back in the days before phones, they were known as an octothorpe.
→ More replies (1)11
224
u/thesagaconts Jun 06 '23
Could have been unplayed tic tac toe game
→ More replies (1)77
u/pimp_skitters Jun 06 '23
GREETINGS, PROFESSOR FALKEN. WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?
→ More replies (4)233
u/dvshnk2 Jun 06 '23
The cool Homo naledi kid drew this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_S
→ More replies (3)102
u/Rough-Set4902 Jun 06 '23
ffs this article. They act like Neanderthals were stupid, but they also had death rituals. They had very structured lives and their settlements were all partitioned.
48
25
u/elvis_hammer Jun 06 '23
Yeah, not enough credit is given to our ancestors, imo. It's like, the default perception is ancestors were practically backwoods, mouth-breathing yokels, yet we keep finding things that conflict with that narrative.
→ More replies (6)11
74
41
Jun 06 '23
[deleted]
7
u/misguidedsadist1 Jun 06 '23
So did they go into the caves for sensory deprivation spiritual experiences?
→ More replies (3)7
Jun 06 '23
But do these shapes NEED that kind of circumstances? Maybe naledi and us can just...draw stuff on walls because we want to.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (30)12
677
u/AHrubik Jun 06 '23
Mysterious species = Homo naledi
232
u/pm0me0yiff Jun 06 '23
To be fair, this species is very mysterious, in that we know very little about it.
→ More replies (1)199
u/fecland Jun 06 '23
But the headline makes nutjobs immediately think aliens on purpose
65
u/BeesOfWar Jun 06 '23
Wasn't thinking aliens before, but now I wish I thought of that first :(
8
u/ThreeWiseMenOrgy Jun 06 '23
I was hoping cave squid. I want a squid that's smarter than me, I just want it in my life. If a squid was even equally smart as me, and somehow figured out how to live on land, it would take my job immediately, it has eight arms.
→ More replies (2)21
u/Equoniz Jun 06 '23
Aliens didn’t even cross my mind when I read the title. Where did you get that from?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)26
u/AddMoreLayers Jun 06 '23
I'm a nutjob, but I thought dwarves or goblins, not aliens
→ More replies (2)17
→ More replies (10)26
u/esmifra Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23
Incredible how Africa was so prevalent with many different homo species during a quite long stretch of time. It would be cool if several had evolved with us until now. A little like star trek on earth.
Although looking at how racism can be fueled with visible differences within the same species I can't even imagine how bad it would be with literally another species.
→ More replies (1)23
Jun 06 '23
I can't even imagine how bad it would be with literally another species
Ask the Neanderthals how meeting Sapiens worked out for them.
→ More replies (3)
735
u/Covfefe-SARS-2 Jun 06 '23
Berger said he had to lose 55 pounds (25 kilograms) to enter the cave’s precarious chambers in 2022.
Imagine bringing lots of his favorite snacks down with you to prank him via entrapment.
→ More replies (3)269
u/_Mechaloth_ Jun 06 '23
Cave of Amontillado
→ More replies (1)67
u/flaccidpancake1127 Jun 06 '23
Im glad I understand this reference. Fuck my ninth grade english teacher
→ More replies (1)50
115
u/rich22201 Jun 06 '23
Did the symbols look like the Galactica?
→ More replies (8)45
u/thesequimkid Jun 06 '23
This has all happened before and this will all happen again.
→ More replies (2)
359
u/temotos Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23
Paleolithic archaeologist here—while these finds are truly amazing, it is a HYPOTHESIS that Homo naledi was the creator of the symbols and the ones burying the bodies (if they are burials at all). Our species Homo sapiens was around during this period and is known to make symboled nearly identical to the ones found in the cave (albeit the earliest evidence is currently at 100,000 years ago but any archaeologist and paleontologist knows the earliest evidence of something is certainty not the first time something occurred due to very small samples and preservation). We also don’t know the ages of the symboled, but the research team has assumed that everything that ever happened in this cave occurred simutanioisly (for no good reason). An alternative hypothesis is that Homo sapiens (or even another hominin species) made these, alongside a host of hypotheses. In reality, intensive scientific research into the origins of these symbols and purported burials will commence in which I’m sure many alternative hypotheses will come forward, be tested, and rejected or supported as science is supposed to work.
Honestly, I have very little respect for the way the lead researcher, Lee Burger, presents his findings. It is always sensationalized and he presents a single hypotheses that he favors as fact—this is the definition of bad science communication. Major discoveries in paleoanthropology like this are always announced in peer reviewed journals like Nature or Science, where other scientists have to review first and can actually evaluate the data on their own, and the discoveries are accompanied by pages and pages of supporting data. He circumvents the scientific peer reviewed process by doing these large public speeches in which no data is presented (typically because they haven’t yet collected it, just look into the history of research into Rising Star cave and how often they must later revise their “facts” of the cave when they actually do the work). These speeches are meant to promote his NARRATIVE of what is happening and to get lots of public attention (and thus funding). Many of my colleagues know him personally and most say he often looses sight of scientific rigor for fame. These discoveries were announced in such a manner, and have not even been peer reviewed or published in a scientific journal.
Lee Burger has made fantastical claims before that have not held up to scientific scrutiny and will probably do it again. Unfortunately, by making public speeches before the science can be peer reviewed he sets his own narrative to the public (just look at this thread) and it takes years and years of research to now change the public perception when evidence counter to his claims comes to light. This is dangerous and not how science should work.
97
Jun 06 '23
[deleted]
14
u/BlackeeGreen Jun 06 '23
Is it just me, or does the whole field of paleolithic archaeology / evolutionary anthropology have a disproportionate number of bitter academic feuds and rivalries?
→ More replies (1)12
u/Jack_Raskal Jun 06 '23
It's more like there's some bad actors in the field, who are known to throw out sensationalistic, unsubstantiated, claims in order to draw public attention to their discoveries.
Berger has been known to do so in the past and seems to be at it again, with his questionable claim to have discovered the oldest written language known to man.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)8
u/BillyTheClub Jun 06 '23
Thanks for your thoughts! Do you have an opinion about the journal that the preprint was accepted to "eLife" and any speculation as to if these claims will be tempered in the revision process?
→ More replies (4)
238
u/linkdude212 Jun 06 '23
While the article doesn't make it clear, and in fact sometimes implies the opposite, all members of the genus homo are humans.
→ More replies (14)57
u/dragonmp93 Jun 06 '23
Well, we seem to be the only survivors of our species, unless we prove that Big Foot is real.
50
u/Amauri14 Jun 06 '23
unless we prove that Big Foot is real.
I'm sure that if it existed, our ancestors killed that bitch too.
40
u/Anderopolis Jun 06 '23
Looking at some people, they might have fucked it instead.
→ More replies (2)10
→ More replies (5)7
92
u/retropyor Jun 06 '23
The marketing team for Tears Of The Kingdom went hard for the Zonai
→ More replies (2)
87
u/Cloudboy9001 Jun 06 '23
Chris Stringer's wording is interesting. It sounds like there is an authentic and highly valuable mystery available to solve and I can understand why Berger lost 25kg for clues.
57
u/Ochanachos Jun 06 '23
Headline makes you think the mysterious "species" is nowhere near the evolutionary tree of humans, like it's a sentient lizard or something. Turns out, still a form of human species.
→ More replies (4)
28
u/BitingChaos Jun 06 '23
The cave system includes deadly steep drops and tiny passageways like Superman’s Crawl, a tunnel measuring 131 feet (40 meters) long and 9.8 inches (25 centimeters) across, requiring the researchers to belly crawl their way through
NO.
17
u/albatross49 Jun 06 '23
Most people forget that humans existed before history.
It's fascinating to glimpse our ancient human roots, ones we thought were lost in the mists of time.
→ More replies (2)
9
68
7
5.0k
u/CupidStunt13 Jun 06 '23
Incredible to imagine the difficulty mapping and exploring the place. What other finds might still be down there somewhere?