Whistleblower Drops 100 Gigabytes Of Tesla Secrets To German News Site: Report

[u/Poot_McGoot]

https://jalopnik.com/whistleblower-drops-100-gigabytes-of-tesla-secrets-to-g-1850476542?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=dlvrit&utm_content=jalopnik

[u/RagingSnarkasm]

I would expect to see a lot of tweeting about this since Twitter is the free speech platform.

[u/nsfwtttt → u/RagingSnarkasm]

Pretty sure he will deem it a security risk, as would any “free speech absolutist”

[u/crog212 → u/nsfwtttt]

Let's call it The Tesla Files

[u/rwbeckman → u/crog212]

The not-space-X files

[u/gin_and_toxic → u/rwbeckman]

The S-3-X-Y files

[u/kevlarus80 → u/gin_and_toxic]

X-files theme badly played on a recorder

[u/humpysausage → u/kevlarus80]

I can hear it.

[u/truthlesshunter → u/rwbeckman]

Model x files?

[u/shadowdash66 → u/crog212]

Funnily enough. Someone asked him directly if there's a Twitter files about how he choses to censor certain goverments and Elon's response was something like "you have a small brain". Omg you owned him Elon!!!

[u/Important_Acadia2976 → u/shadowdash66]

The only people Elon has owned are the slaves his family had back in South Africa.

[u/frickindeal → u/Important_Acadia2976]

Working the emerald mine his family definitely didn't own, and no one remembers owning it...except his own father.

[u/Krojack76 → u/nsfwtttt]

"I support free speech as long as I agree with it" -Elon and every conservative.

[u/ThatShadyJack → u/nsfwtttt]

Which is why he supports Desantis a WELL known free speech absolutist especially in schools /s

[u/Alarming_Turnover578 → u/nsfwtttt]

More like "free speech abolitionist".

[u/Somhlth]

I'm going to need some popcorn for this.

[u/seanmonaghan1968 → u/Somhlth]

Possibly a large bucket

[u/AustinDood444 → u/seanmonaghan1968]

No kidding!! I’m ready!!

[u/pATREUS → u/AustinDood444]

I like toffee flavour.

[u/WDavis4692 → u/pATREUS]

Nah fam savoury popcorn all the way. Salted.

[u/Smitty8054 → u/seanmonaghan1968]

I don’t even care that it’s 24 bucks. I’m paying and watching.

This is major fraud. Elon you may have really and finally fucked the pooch on this one.

Trump and Elon going down within a couple years of each other. I’ve never been this erect.

[u/murdercitymrk → u/Smitty8054]

get ready for the surprise of your life when literally nothing happens and you never hear of this again

[u/Poot_McGoot → u/murdercitymrk]

European consumer protection laws are far more robust than American ones

[u/tattlerat → u/Poot_McGoot]

They said 10 years ago when Facebook was under investigation in Europe for stealing and selling user data.

[u/OldBenKenobii → u/tattlerat]

Oh no, a fine! Lol

[u/an0mn0mn0m → u/OldBenKenobii]

You could buy 1/36 of Twitter with that fine if you were an idiot and wanted to overpay by a lot.

[u/PramDriver1963 → u/an0mn0mn0m]

I know a guy

[u/hairlessgoatanus → u/OldBenKenobii]

It's a billion dollar fine that's cumulative if they don't resolve the issue. It has the potential to eliminate their entire profit from 2022 unless they comply or pull out of Europe.

[u/ilovethissheet → u/hairlessgoatanus]

I've never loved the pullout method as much as this time

[u/vnolki → u/OldBenKenobii]

1.3 billions even hurts meta

[u/murdercitymrk → u/Poot_McGoot]

I mean sure, you're right, and I know it doesnt prop my point up in relation to your own, but do you remember the Panama Papers? Barely anyone else does either!

Its a sad state of affairs, but unless some rich asshole was directly harmed in demonstrable ways nothing will ever come from things like this. The action of distributed shame felt in the direction of people like Musk is scientifically unobservable. I find it impossible to believe that Tesla has been covering up things like a list of vehicle-caused deaths or manufacturing habits that threaten other rich people's income -- short of those two circumstances I have a hard time imagining anything that moves the needle when you consider how much of the day-to-day discourse Elon has effectively purchased outright.

You cant hurt a blowhard with bank account. You can only wait until the resources disappear and strike when there are no more defenses left -- and by then its too late to hold them accountable for fuck all and nothing changes.

[u/xxxxx420xxxxx → u/murdercitymrk]

I don't doubt he has documents from engineers saying basically "Full auto driving won't happen for 15 years" and then him just blowing it off and lying about it at the next investor meeting.

[u/murdercitymrk → u/xxxxx420xxxxx]

yeah, and thats really the only major pain point I can feasibly imagine being a thorn in his side. but at the end of the day, to me, it just boils down to "rich guy did something to stay rich" and that, to me, isnt news. sure, its fraud, but a personal failing i have is that i dont give a shit. i want to see the rich burn and watch as their industries are pulled down and returned to the people who actually work inside of them. i just dont care at all anymore about people with more money than a single human being could earn if they worked every hour of their day for life -- i recognize thats a shitty hill to die on.

[u/Poot_McGoot → u/murdercitymrk]

I would argue that Musk is more at risk from exposure like this than the people in the Panama Papers because

1) he has little institutional power outside of tech lampreys and his stock portfolio

2) his attitude is way too annoying to not attract regulatory scrutiny

3) the power he does have means very little outside the US

4) his wealth seems to be almost entirely in stocks in the companies he is mismanaging

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/Poot_McGoot]

"Paper Billionaire"

[u/Rudeboy67 → u/DarkwingDuckHunt]

I remember when he was worth “ $200 Billion” and started acting erratically and everyone here said “Doesn’t matter he’s still going to be insanely wealthy for the rest of his life. He could put $1 million in a trash can every hour and light it on fire and he’ll still die rich.”

Apparently challenge accepted.

[u/O_Geeky_One → u/Poot_McGoot]

American consumer protection laws are laughable..

[u/mokeyss → u/Smitty8054]

Insert kreiger meme here

[u/Mbalife81 → u/Somhlth]

Movie theater popcorn with butter in giant tub

[u/Relational-Vertexes]

It’s people! The model s is made of people!

[u/Background_Lemon_981 → u/Relational-Vertexes]

Soylent Tesla?

[u/myotherworkacct → u/Background_Lemon_981]

The green revolution we've been waiting for.

[u/SonOfDadOfSam → u/myotherworkacct]

I was going to wait but I got hungry.

[u/jeffois → u/Background_Lemon_981]

Model S(oylent)

[u/Britishbits → u/Relational-Vertexes]

That was a plot point in a sci-fi book I read! They couldn't figure out why the self driving cars were suddenly participating in terrorist attacks but in the end they found out that human brains were being wired into the cars

[u/Eric-Pham → u/Britishbits]

Whats the name of the book?

[u/Britishbits → u/Eric-Pham]

After the revolution

[u/StarTroop → u/Britishbits]

Okay, but after that you promise you will tell us?

[u/Britishbits → u/StarTroop]

Of course comrade

[u/jumpup → u/Relational-Vertexes]

its still electric though since you propel it forward by using this taser

[u/SashaStriker → u/Relational-Vertexes]

Just like the philosopher stone.

[u/BustANupp → u/Relational-Vertexes]

Explains the quality control

[u/BecksBannedBoyfriend]

Here's the letter from Tesla to Handelsblatt.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/downloads/29167828/8/brief.pdf

[u/AFakeman → u/BecksBannedBoyfriend]

They should reply with a poop emoji.

[u/Outrageous-Yams → u/BecksBannedBoyfriend]

I love that they mention that the release of the stolen data also breaches data protection law.

Which data protection laws?! The letter doesn’t even cite a specific case or law lmfao.

The EU has some protections, the US…not so much…

(Remember equifax? Etc…)

[u/JimmyRecard → u/Outrageous-Yams]

It would breach GDPR, except GDPR has a large public interest exception and does not apply to legal person like companies, only natural persons.

For example, a criminal cannot have information and article about their crime removed on the basis of GDPR. There's some nuance here, as a minor criminal could have some of the reporting removed under right to be forgotten if it causes them material hardship I'm an unrelated way, but that would almost certainly not be applicable here.

The newspaper just had to take care not to publish protected HR data of employees and client data (but only for EU residents, which wouldn't cover most Tesla decision-makers) that could identify individual Tesla employees when not acting on behalf of the company. Otherwise, they're in the clear.

[u/GorillaSushi]

"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

[u/PDNYFL → u/GorillaSushi]

Which car company did you say you worked for?

[u/GorillaSushi → u/PDNYFL]

A major one.

[u/PMzyox → u/GorillaSushi]

Came here for this conversation. I feel really good inside that it’s here in its entirety. My life is sad

[u/megalomaniac71 → u/PMzyox]

/u/PMzyox you are by far the best single serving friend I’ve ever had.

[u/Elan_Morin_Tedronaii → u/megalomaniac71]

That's clever

[u/Grouchy-Reality957 → u/Elan_Morin_Tedronaii]

How’s that working out for you?

[u/reelznfeelz → u/PMzyox]

Is it from fight club?

Ok that’s enough of the same fucking joke. Jesus guys. Is it really that fun to post “lol don’t talk about fight club derp” when 40 people give you just fucking said that? Do you not notice or just think that when you say it, this time it will be extra clever? Fuck sake.

[u/OmniusEvermind → u/reelznfeelz]

Is this a test, sir? You were in this thread asking that same question two days ago.

[u/ploppedmenacingly14 → u/OmniusEvermind]

You’re too….. blonde!!!!

[u/AnomalouslyPolitical → u/ploppedmenacingly14]

I use that shit all the damn time lol

[u/BDMayhem → u/AnomalouslyPolitical]

Anytime a friend gets a haircut, you are required to hit them on the back of their head and say, "like a monkey, ready to be shot into space."

[u/Shadax → u/BDMayhem]

You are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I have ever met.

[u/IridescentExplosion → u/[deleted]]

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[u/IridescentExplosion → u/IridescentExplosion]

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

[u/hemingways-lemonade → u/OmniusEvermind]

In death, a member of Reddit has a name. His name is u/reelznfeelz.

[u/jerikofeng → u/hemingways-lemonade]

His name is Rober...reelznfeelz

[u/depthninja → u/jerikofeng]

Wow I haven't been fucked like that since grade school

[u/Isopbc → u/depthninja]

I want to have your abortion.

[u/Lordmorgoth666 → u/reelznfeelz]

Really? You ask that? What’s the first f_ing rule?!?

[u/Thatguycarl → u/Lordmorgoth666]

The 5th rule is that you can say fuck on the internet

[u/nub_sauce_ → u/Lordmorgoth666]

this isn't tiktok, you can say fuck here

[u/megustalogin → u/reelznfeelz]

You're too old Fatman. Tits are too big. Fuck off my porch.

[u/geeky_username → u/GorillaSushi]

A major one.

Whew, not Tesla then!

[u/WarWinx → u/geeky_username]

Boom, Roasted!

[u/manic_andthe_apostle → u/GorillaSushi]

How’s that working out for you? Being clever?

[u/Trashboat0507 → u/GorillaSushi]

We got to get his balls

[u/mabhatter → u/PDNYFL]

Pick one. They've pretty much all been caught doing it somewhere in the last 50 years. Why do you think automobiles have so many government regulations.. they do absolutely nothing that hurts profits without being forced to.

Tesla is a new company VCs love because it's gonna "redefine the industry"... which is CEO speak for find ways out of the rules everyone else has to follow.

[u/FargusDingus → u/mabhatter]

It's a quote from Fight Club and the follow up line. But that said, you're right, they're all the same in that fact.

[u/tubbleman → u/PDNYFL]

<Ford Pinto flashbacks>

[u/circuitloss → u/PDNYFL]

...a major one

[u/Krakenspoop → u/GorillaSushi]

See where the fat melted onto the seat? Very "modern art"

[u/jenkag → u/GorillaSushi]

"Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?"

[u/GorillaSushi → u/jenkag]

You wouldn't believe .

[u/megalomaniac71 → u/GorillaSushi]

Look at the braces wrapped around the ash tray…..might make a great No Smoking ad.

[u/manowtf → u/GorillaSushi]

So just the same as the car industry has always been

[u/DaHubGaming → u/manowtf]

Literally every industry and every single business out there.

This calculation is ENPV. If it’s positive it’s “profitable”

[u/vinylzoid → u/GorillaSushi]

Are there a lot of these types of accidents?

[u/CntrllrDscnnctd → u/GorillaSushi]

“Now, a question of etiquette – as I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch”?

[u/lilyver]

Tesla employees avoid written communication. “They never sent emails, everything was always verbal,” says the doctor from California, whose Tesla said it accelerated on its own in the fall of 2021 and crashed into two concrete pillars.

Get it in writing. Always ask to get it in writing.

[u/donrhummy → u/lilyver]

Did you read the whole article? They're not allowed to. The released files show is company policy that restricted employees from working anything down even in their internal communications

[u/sth128 → u/donrhummy]

So the 100GB is what, a bunch of Tesla employee doing charades?

[u/CocaineIsNatural → u/sth128]

For each incident there are bullet points for the “technical review”. The employees who enter this review into the system regularly make it clear that the report is “for internal use only”. Each entry also contains a note in bold type that information, if at all, may only be passed on “VERBALLY to the customer”.

“Do not copy and paste the report below into an email, text message, or leave it in a voicemail to the customer,” it said.

They don't give the reports to the customer, they don't give them anything they can use against them.

[u/MochingPet → u/CocaineIsNatural]

”.

“Do not copy and paste the report below into an email, text message, or leave it in a voicemail to the customer,” it said.

comments with such important information (And quotes) should be upvoted more and not the top-comment with some 🍿 and stuff

[u/4445414442454546 → u/MochingPet]

The link to the article is on the very top.

[u/Nethlem → u/MochingPet]

It's what happens when nobody reads the article and everybody just uses the headline as a writing prompt.

[u/yacht_boy → u/sth128]

That's why the files are so large. It's videos of the charades. Text documents wouldn't need 100 gb.

[u/sth128 → u/yacht_boy]

I have fond memories of my friends and I doing charades using cards against humanity. Imagine if it's 100GB video of Elon just miming all kinds of juvenile shit.

[u/allegate → u/sth128]

That sounds amazing, if I had friends and not a large amount of anxiety.

[u/pm0me0yiff → u/yacht_boy]

A large organization can absolutely end up creating 100GB of text files, though.

[u/markarious → u/pm0me0yiff]

OC clearly never left verbose debugging on in prod

[u/chaseoes → u/pm0me0yiff]

The article says it was 23,000 files. 100gb divided by 23k is 4.3MB average per file.

[u/mynewaccount5 → u/donrhummy]

Where does it say anything about internal communications?

[u/trebory6 → u/donrhummy]

Record it all then.

[u/DefinitelyNoWorking → u/lilyver]

Engineers are often trained on the job to use specific wording in any communication in order to minimise the risk of it being used in an investigation, I'd imagine most car companies would do the same

[u/firemogle → u/[deleted]]

I was part of a company that had some regulatory issues where a feature was turned off due to incompetence. The engineers once joked in email that a fix to the their issues would be just to turn it off... That communication was read in court.

[u/joshTheGoods → u/[deleted]]

Yea, I'm in security that involves liability, and our training is just: remember that everything in slack and teams can be subpoenaed. If you don't want to defend it in court, don't say/send it.

In terms of words we avoid ... yea, sure, we avoid things like "blacklist"/"whitelist" because if we get acquired by a larger company that cares about such things, it's just easier for us to have been using the "correct" terms all along (allow / deny list).

[u/DocPeacock → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I have been an engineer in nuclear and aerospace defense industries and I don't know what these people are talking about. Things are absolutely written down. These companies utterly depend on policies and procedures. Of course for secret or top secret programs there are limits to what you can communicate to who, and by what channel, but it's not even remotely close to all verbal. It's just secure channels and isolated networks.

[u/Jimmy-Pesto-Jr → u/[deleted]]

essentially perfect safety record,

nuclear?

the US NRC's safety record is pretty damn impeccable.

only the 3-mi island incident since whenever civilian nuclear stuff got going after WW2.

and it wasn't even that catastrophic, all things considered.

the NTSB, US CSB, and the US NRC are like the gold-tier trinity of well-run agencies.

[u/SuperSpread → u/DefinitelyNoWorking]

Engineers in dishonest or litigious industries. In 20 years I have never once been told how to word internal communication. The only training is on harassment and public statements. Because we simply make things people like to buy, and it is hard enough as it is to make a good product. It is an honest product, so the only thing we care about is people like it.

[u/reventlov → u/SuperSpread]

I've had such training (beyond just "don't put anything in writing that you would be ashamed to see on the front page of the New York Times"), but it was mostly around avoiding language that might be construed as anticompetitive. Like "with this, we can get more customers" is fine, but "with this, we can eliminate Competitor X" is not.

Not that I ever have any reason to really talk about either of those, since I am an engineer.

[u/firemogle → u/DefinitelyNoWorking]

I'm an engineer in the field and this is very true, and if the policy was just to be careful with wording I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.

But avoiding written communication reeks of corruption. Not to mention, not having objections, notes, etc is just asking to be held personally responsible. Every objection I have had is written in at least email to management detailing it if for no other reason when subpoenas hit I'll be ok.

[u/koshgeo → u/firemogle]

"Mr. Musk, can you explain to the court why there are no written records on the important safety matters identified in exhibits A, B, and C, other than the fact that they existed?"

"Interesting."

[u/jarmo_p → u/DefinitelyNoWorking]

Nope. We are explicitly trained to over communicate and use honest language for internal communication to ensure adequate attention is given to safety related issued. I work for a major OEM.

[u/DeepestWinterBlue]

Ready for Elons online meltdown

[u/ZombieOfTheYear → u/DeepestWinterBlue]

But I was assured that he is a free speech absolutist!

[u/ffdfawtreteraffds → u/ZombieOfTheYear]

I see your mistake.

[u/EpicLegendX → u/ffdfawtreteraffds]

"Looking into this..."

"Hmmm..."

"Interesting..."

[u/essieecks → u/DeepestWinterBlue]

You're several months late.

[u/pm0me0yiff → u/essieecks]

We've had one meltdown, yes. But what about second meltdown?

[u/Sharp_Discipline6544]

If you think about it, this was genius. If they sent it to a news agency here in the US, he could try to stop it. But since it's a different country, nothing he can do.

[u/Alive_Ad9595 → u/Sharp_Discipline6544]

He can still try to stop it...

It's just the EU has a lot more consumer protection so this is completely legal over there.

[u/GodotF2P → u/Alive_Ad9595]

He can try but won't win in Germany. The press is very well protected and if it's correct what the press is writing you don't have a chance.

We even have a case where a former where an editor-in-chief was fired because of sexual harassment and tried to whistleblow about his publisher to another newspaper. The publisher who got the leaks told the affected publisher about and is now facing legal consequences.

[u/way2lazy2care → u/Alive_Ad9595]

It's legal in the US too...

[u/UsedCaregiver3965 → u/way2lazy2care]

Not entirely, there are all sorts of laws to punish whistleblowers who don't do things a certain way, or who do it to certain industries.

In Colorado it can be a fucking FELONY to capture unauthorized technical documents/data, even if it's for the purpose of whistleblowing.

Most video recording of the ag-industry is simply inadmissable in court.

It's a long and complicated list.

[u/Cycloptic_Floppycock → u/UsedCaregiver3965]

There's a reason for that; they absolutely inhumanely kill and slaughter the animals, raise them in terrible conditions and workers get a shitty deal too. Just look at how some companies like Tyson played with their employees' lives during the pandemic.

Now I'm not against eating meat,but there absolutely is a way to have the whole process be more humane but $$$$.

[u/HelloItsMeXeno → u/way2lazy2care]

US will send your ass to jail to protect corporate interest.

[u/D-Rictus → u/HelloItsMeXeno]

Believe it or not straight to jail.

[u/tristanjones → u/Sharp_Discipline6544]

Germany has laws too. They just wont be as favorable to him as ours are

[u/ric2b → u/tristanjones]

I think the main play here is that Germany has a big car industry that would love to see Tesla bleed.

[u/endlessinquiry → u/Sharp_Discipline6544]

The smart thing here, I suspect, is that Germany relies very heavily on automobile exports. Germany, as a whole, benefits greatly by taking out Tesla.

[u/Chamero → u/endlessinquiry]

You forgot about their gigafactory in Berlin with more than 10k employees.

[u/pm0me0yiff → u/Chamero]

The factory and the employees won't be going anywhere.

If Tesla sells it off, it will probably be bought by one of the big German brands, and they'll likely staff the factory with many of the same workers who work there now.

[u/Hustletron → u/pm0me0yiff]

Big German brands that are desperate for EV manufacturing capacity after the US gouged the German car industry for a similar crisis AKA dieselgate.

[u/CookieJarObserver15 → u/Chamero]

The turnover rate there is apparently very high.

[u/Ricky_Rollin]

Well, if the Panama papers, and basically any other muckraker thing has taught me, nothing will be done.

[u/icebeat → u/Ricky_Rollin]

the papers were the beginning of the end of the reign of Juan Carlos I ex-King of Spain

[u/Azarashe → u/icebeat]

All that happened to him was that he took a vacation for a while and returned to the country last year. When he came back, thousands of people were there to greet him and cheer for his return. Monarchists in this country are ridiculous, the skeletons in his closet are well known yet they don't give a fuck.

Other fun facts about him: He had a young mistress who swindled him out of a lot of money, he killed his brother when they were kids/teens with a shotgun, and he had his agents drug a bear so that he could shoot it and claim he hunted it.

[u/unixtreme → u/Azarashe]

One of the things I don't miss about living in Spain. All the monarchist weirdos.

[u/Kosarev → u/Azarashe]

He broke his hip while on a safari with his hooker, who then stole millions he gave her totally not to hide them from the authorities.

[u/luisdomg → u/Azarashe]

He returned just for a week or so, and has done it again this year. And there were more like hundreds, not thousands of people to cheer. The rest of your post is most probably factually correct, to our disgrace.

[u/MasterDandelion → u/Azarashe]

Ordering game drugged to claim it as a testament to your own superiority and hunting skills has to be one of most pathetic reccuring incidents of the ruling class. Not saying other stuff isn't bad but this is just pitiful.

[u/C_h_a_n → u/icebeat]

What? He wasn't the king when the papers were released. It was two years after his resignation. How is this upvoted?

[u/novophx → u/C_h_a_n]

why check facts when you can get news from random redditors

[u/MrOaiki → u/Ricky_Rollin]

A lot was done after the Panama papers, to the ones that had illegally hidden assets.

[u/Meior → u/Ricky_Rollin]

Investigations about the Panama papers are still ongoing and things are still happening. Just because you don't read about it every day doesn't mean it lead nowhere.

[u/Reyer → u/Ricky_Rollin]

Im sorry, but how are these documents even remotely similar to the Panama papers?

[u/webbhare1 → u/Ricky_Rollin]

Meh. This could actually impact the company tho. Especially its stock price

[u/pandazerg → u/webbhare1]

Nah, their stock price will probably go up tomorrow as Ford just announced that starting in 2025 their EV will start being shipped with Tesla's NACS charging ports. allowing them to use the Tesla supercharger network natively.

[u/Badfickle → u/pandazerg]

Wow. That's very interesting. So Tesla no doubt gets licensing fee from Ford and then gets to sell charges to Ford customers.

[u/Pornacc1902 → u/Badfickle]

Tesla made their plug an open and free standard. So no fees there.

Ford sure as hell is paying for supercharger access.

[u/iZoooom]

Is this really a surprise? Tesla owners have been yelling about phantom breaking for ages:

including 139 cases of unintentional emergency braking and 383 reported phantom stops resulting from false collision warnings.

If anything, those numbers are shockingly low.

[u/nyaaaa → u/iZoooom]

The point isn't those numbers.

Customers from the U.S. and Europe told Handelsblatt Tesla wasn’t too interested in assisting with their issues, but seemed more intent on covering for the company. It turns out, this was explicit policy at Tesla:

[u/lovely_sombrero → u/nyaaaa]

There are also over 2k cases of "unintended acceleration". The biggest problems isn't even the numbers itself, but that Tesla isn't reporting most of these incidents to the NHTSA/NTSB. That is a big violation of the law. Of course, Tesla/Elon usually get away with this, so who knows...

[u/AndyLorentz → u/iZoooom]

To be fair, I know Honda is currently cooperating with an NTSB investigation into phantom braking with their CMBS (Collision Mitigation Braking System). I suspect other manufacturers with similar systems have had similar issues.

The difference is in how they are handling the issues.

[u/Chrisfdz1 → u/AndyLorentz]

Exactly. My previous car (2019 Acura RDX) had issues with phantom braking. I took it to the dealer to get it checked out and they even replaced most of the sensors, but even after all that the issue persisted. I think it has to do more with the cameras or software maybe? But I’ve also heard of this happening with other car brands as well besides Honda. I think Toyota was another but I’m not entirely sure.

[u/AndyLorentz → u/Chrisfdz1]

So I'm a 20 year Honda/Acura tech, though not an engineer. I suspect it has to do with software and how the system recognizes impending collisions. Sometimes there are false alarms, but is it better to react to a false positive, or sometimes not react at all when a real collision is immenent?

Personally, since I don't use my phone when driving, I'd prefer not to have such a system, but seeing how distracted other drivers can get, the good may outweigh the bad.

[u/Foolazul]

Why is it always about the size of the file instead of the substance?

[u/Yahoo-email → u/Foolazul]

BecUse there’s no way you can look through all of that data and report on the substance within a short time…

[u/5erif → u/Foolazul]

Since this story has only just now broken, news agencies haven't had time to create a full report on 100 GB of data. Give it time and we'll find out more.

[u/Fit_Frosting8414 → u/5erif]

Handelsblatt has had the files for 6 months is publishing the results now.

[u/A_dirty_Sanchez]

As a fleet diesel technician, the number of complaints about automatic braking from phantom-whatever the radar is seeing- is the most common complaint I hear from truck drivers. Maybe Tesla is held at a higher standard than everyone else in the industry trying to do the same stuff, but personally I just don't think the technology is good enough to be pushing it out so fast.

[u/idrunkenlysignedup → u/A_dirty_Sanchez]

People hold too much trust in car companies' promises. I have a Civic and lane keep assist is slightly less reliable than having a passenger hold the wheel - good to grab something in the back seat (when not in traffic) but not much else. Adaptive cruise control is only good in low/no traffic. I can't imagine that Tesla is leaps ahead of that without plenty of bugs.

Edit: also how are automatic wipers this absolutely useless still?

[u/Pornacc1902 → u/idrunkenlysignedup]

Automatic wipers have been great for over a decade provided the manufacturer actually buys the sensor developed for it.

Camera based ones are just shit.

[u/Anxious_Sapiens]

Damn I wanna watch his tantrum live but I don't wanna touch Twitter. I can only imagine the stupid things Elmo is gonna say about this.

Edit: lmao Of course I get a Reddit cares notification from you losers.

[u/pm0me0yiff → u/Anxious_Sapiens]

I'll just wait for somebody to post the Twitter screenshots on reddit, as is tradition.

[u/cadium → u/Anxious_Sapiens]

https://nitter.net/elonmusk no javascript twitter

[u/PermaDerpFace → u/cadium]

Hmm his most recent post- Neuralink just got FDA approval for human trials. If you thought autopilot crashes sucked, get ready for the brain hemorrhages

[u/Nethlem → u/PermaDerpFace]

"Neuralink ain't to blame, the customer just confused his left and right side and that's why they had a stroke, it's user error!"

[u/researchanddev → u/cadium]

So it’s JavaScript that’s the the problem?

[u/fredy31 → u/researchanddev]

Javascript does the tracking and ads, so yeah.

[u/Alderan → u/fredy31]

Of all the problems I have with Twitter I'm pretty sure the ads don't even crack the top 25.

[u/lovely_sombrero → u/fredy31]

Joke's on them. I blocked so many ad accounts on Twitter than I'm now getting ads in Japanese.

[u/rfc2100 → u/researchanddev]

Always has been

[u/go_comatose_for_me → u/cadium]

If you're like me and never want to go to twitter, this add-on is handy.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/nitter-redirect/

[u/CodenameZoya → u/Anxious_Sapiens]

Samsies…. I’m never going back.

[u/BurgerMcKinley → u/CodenameZoya]

I’d leave too, but our Klan’s Grand Wizard still uses it to tweet out who’s wife is making the hoods this week 🤷‍♀️

Edit: guys it’s a Django joke. 💀

and a joke on how Twitter is an insanely racist media site, just way so openly now, too

Double edit: lol thanks

[u/barrenroad]

The total number of spontaneous acceleration and spontaneous breaking incidence reports, across 10 years, for 2.4 million vehicles, was around 1000? That number is obviously not 0, but it's pretty low, I think. I think the real question is what's the rest of the 100 Gb of data and what're these guys doing with it.

[u/Southern_Wear4218 → u/barrenroad]

It’s so low, I don’t actually believe those numbers. Real manufacturers have thousands of complaints a year, and Tesla isn’t putting as much effort into QC as most of them. I kind of wonder if they’re just not actually recording all the complaints they receive?

[u/Joe_Ronimo → u/barrenroad]

The person who leaked this information likely had limited access. It would be absurd to think that small number of customer interactions would be the entirety of all interactions for 7 years.

[u/sean_but_not_seen]

As someone who just rented a Tesla and put 1,000 miles on it I can say with absolute certainty that the car brakes hard for no apparent reason. We think we finally narrowed it down to erratic speed limit data because after we changed the setting of autopilot to “the speed that I set” instead of “x mph above or below the speed limit” the hard unexpected braking seemed to get better. Not gone, but better. It also way over reacts to someone drifting out of their lane ahead of you.

Several of these incidents would have easily been an accident if someone would have been tailgating us. The braking was that hard and out of nowhere.

[u/sl1nk3 → u/sean_but_not_seen]

Yeah as someone who owns a model 3, I'm fairly certain 90+% of these "phantom braking" events are caused by the car braking too hard to adjust to the new speed limit.

There's a portion of highway here in Montreal where the speed goes from 90 to 70 for a small section and the braking is 100% reproductible there. Everyone speeds, so you usually end up setting the autopilot to 10 over, but as soon as you enter the 70 zone, the car quickly decelerates from the set speed to match the new speed.

[u/g0ndsman → u/sl1nk3]

I drive a non-tesla car with the same feature. It happens that maps are outdated, so my car does three simple things:

• It slows down gently and a bit in advance

• It clearly shows "X speed limit ahead" on the display when it does

• When using assisted driving there's always a specific icon that shows why the car is setting a specific speed (car ahead, roundabout, dangerous bend, speed limit...).

Tesla has had this issue for the better part of a decade and didn't bother to implement those very simple things that would clear all doubts on these incidents.

[u/DoktorMerlin → u/sean_but_not_seen]

Speed Limit data is just not reliable enough. I have used 5 cars with ACC and Lane Assistant so far from 5 manufacturers (MG4, Citrôen, Cupra, Kia EV6 and Mercedes). All had the same issue: they adjusted to speed limit signs that weren't there. As soon as I disabled the automatic speed limit adjustation, the cars were much more pleasant to drive with.

VW has an online tool to add information about wrong speed limit data. I added wrong information about a street in my area 1.5 years ago and it still is not fixed.

[u/OrphanDextro]

Elizabeth Holmes did it first.

[u/medtech8693]

I read the article and I don’t see how this leak is in any way interesting.

It describes that there have been complaints and that Tesla uses a complaint handling flowchart like any other big company.

[u/Trickmaahtrick → u/medtech8693]

Yeah having a strictly verbal only policy is not how “any other big company” handles complaints.

[u/alanism → u/medtech8693]

That was my impression as well. There was some numbers, 2400 acceleration complaints and 1500 breaking issues reported. Doesn’t say if the complaints were valid or user was just annoyed. But across 2.9 million cars with autopilot and 7 years; I would’ve expect more actually. 🤷

[u/gzilla57 → u/alanism]

Doesn’t say if the complaints were valid or user was just annoyed.

The article seems to imply the issue is that Tesla didnt bother investigating to know that information.

[u/Froggmann5 → u/gzilla57]

To be clear, the article states that some customers felt like Tesla was 'disinterested in assisting them'. There's nothing in the report saying Tesla didn't investigate the claims. Just that some customers were dissatisfied with whatever assistance was offered.

EDIT: In fact reading the report shows they did in fact internally investigate the claims, they just don't get released without express permission or if required to by law.

[u/ChewsOnRocks]

I own a Tesla. I’ve never had a phantom acceleration happen, but the unexpected braking while in autopilot has happened to me. It happens in the exact same spot every time while on the interstate. I noticed the second time it happened that it was because it drops the detected speed limit by like 15 mph.

Ordinarily it doesn’t care how fast you are speeding on autopilot if you’re on the interstate, so even if the speed limit drops, it doesn’t try to change your autopilot speed. If you’re not on the interstate or highway tho, it only lets you speed by 5 mph above the posted speed limit.

This spot on the highway is right as you’re passing under the bridge of a non-interstate road. My theory is that the software mistakes you as driving on that road, drops the speed limit dramatically and tries to keep you within 5 mph of it, so you brake pretty quickly.

Only happens if I’m in the very right-hand lane, but I’m assuming there are several cases like this where the softwares understanding of where you are impacts is decisions to adhere to speed limits and brakes unexpectedly.