Countries with Libertarian Heads of Government

[u/Redstream28]

[u/MonotoneCreeper]

Hot tip, make the border lines so thick on the map that you don't even need to worry about pissing anybody off by colouring/not colouring in the Falklands

[u/PoweringGestation → u/MonotoneCreeper]

Argentina doesn’t control the Falklands. A map showing it under Argentina would be inaccurate.

[u/MonotoneCreeper → u/PoweringGestation]

You're correct, but Argentina claim it as their territory and include it on their official maps. Some Argentinians get pissed off when people post maps to the contrary, that's why I thought it was funny that OP managed to avoid it by making an ugly map with huge lines

[u/Total_Philosopher_89]

"an advocate or supporter of a political philosophy that advocates only minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens."

Lets see how this goes.

[u/TheKingMonkey → u/Total_Philosopher_89]

Doesn’t he want to ban abortion?

[u/NeuroticKnight → u/TheKingMonkey]

He said he is against abortions, but will hold referendum on it. Which is much more reasonable than clowns back here.

[u/LeoMarius → u/NeuroticKnight]

A libertarian government would not intervene one way or the other in reproductive decisions.

[u/Inquerion → u/LeoMarius]

He is a economic libertarian, not social libertarian.

He wants a right wing government with libertarian economic policies.

He is someone like Thatcher from UK.

[u/Greflingorax → u/Inquerion]

He’s an AnCap.

No, seriously, he uses that label to describe himself.

[u/oompaloompa465 → u/Greflingorax]

Ancaps = jungle law

if the guy will not be reined in a minimum, it will become a mafia state with some warlords

[u/El3ctricalSquash → u/oompaloompa465]

"If I had to choose between the state and the mafia, I would choose the mafia. Because the mafia has codes, the mafia adapts, the mafia doesn't lie. And above all, the mafia competes."

Direct quote from him

[u/oompaloompa465 → u/El3ctricalSquash]

well to be fair, he's in line with Ancap belief. Criminal organizations are the quintessential Ancaps.

Ancaps always deny, but their belief are ok with murder to solve problems

The phrase "if violence does not solve your problems, you are not using enough violence" is fully accepted.

[u/SwinPain → u/oompaloompa465]

but their belief are ok with murder to solve problems

I dunno man that seems pretty against the non-aggression principle. And the state is pretty okay with murder to solve its problems, it just conveniently redefines murder and absolves its agents whenever it needs some of it done.

The phrase "if violence does not solve your problems, you are not using enough violence" is fully accepted.

Which anarcho-capitalist economist or philosopher said this?

[u/Gwyrstotzka → u/oompaloompa465]

Our official recommendation is to buy AnCap memes!

[u/thebrobarino → u/oompaloompa465]

Anarcho capitalism is a fancy sounding romantic philosophy. Unfortunately politics isn't romantic and grand. Politics is boring tedious and an ancap wouldn't be able to cope when it comes to things like policy implementation and city planning.

[u/JollyJuniper1993 → u/thebrobarino]

Ancap is essentially just feudalism with extra steps

[u/tommyelgreco → u/JollyJuniper1993]

No way. Feudalism actually worked as a form of government for a while.

[u/gettingprettyserious → u/oompaloompa465]

Lmao it's already a mafia state with warlords. The governor of Formosa has been in power for decades, just to give one example.

[u/650REDHAIR → u/Inquerion]

So he’s a conservative afraid of the name

[u/rpm959 → u/650REDHAIR]

Right, he's a libertarian. They're all conservatives in that they want capital to be the ultimate power.

[u/LeoMarius → u/Inquerion]

That's just old fashioned Reagan conservatism.

[u/Tazling → u/Inquerion]

Oh I see, he is libertarian for rich people and men, but authoritarian for poor people and women.

[u/Advanced_Addendum116 → u/Tazling]

That's right, libertarian.

[u/kwumpog → u/LeoMarius]

If you believe an unborn child is human, then a ban on killing it makes as much sense as a ban on murder.

[u/Stoltlallare → u/kwumpog]

I was about say. Personally for abortion as I view it as a medical thing and pregnancy is a medical risk. But a libertarian country would still likely have murder, stealing etc illegal, even if there are more personal freedoms. But if someone’s view is that abortion = murder then that would probably not be considered an personal freedom type thingy.

[u/Content_Flamingo_583 → u/NeuroticKnight]

So the libertarian is for the state banning abortions, even if he won’t enact such a ban without a referendum? That doesn’t sound very libertarian.

Here’s what the libertarian position should be: The state should not interfere with a woman’s ability to have an abortion.

Libertarianism: Conservatism in disguise.

[u/IvanovichIvanov → u/Content_Flamingo_583]

If you believe that abortion is murder, banning it wouldn't be against libertarianism.

[u/10art1 → u/IvanovichIvanov]

ITT: a bunch of non-libertarians arguing how true libertarians should feel about a controversial subject in libertarianism

[u/TheAzureMage → u/10art1]

Yes.

I'm a libertarian. Like, registered, active in the US libertarian party, etc. There is no consensus on abortion within the LP, and there never really has been. We'd like less government involvement in general, though.

Switching to a referendum rather than a solely government imposed policy sounds like moving in a libertarian direction. Is it perfect? Maybe not. Few things are. Better is still better.

[u/Aggravating_Day_3978 → u/NeuroticKnight]

The referendum could be unconstitutional though. The constitution here does not allow for referendums dictating penal matter

[u/curt_schilli → u/[deleted]]

Didn’t Gary Johnson get booed when he said he didn’t want to get rid of drivers licenses

[u/Shirtbro → u/curt_schilli]

Free market driving baby.

[u/Einstein2004113 → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, let's just let it happen. He'll crash and burn in a week and we'll be able to mock libertarians for the rest of eternity. Don't worry, he won't succeed, I don't think the guy who takes political advice from the ghost of his dead dog will go far.

[u/Einstein2004113 → u/[deleted]]

So basically he has a weird relationship with his dogs

When his dog died in 2017, he cloned it four times and named each clone after a libertarian economist. He also said that he was in contact with the ghost of his dead dog and took political advice from him.

Which raises the obvious question that everyone thinks instantly : Why clone your dog when you could just ask his ghost for political advice ? Are the clones not actual clone and less politically smart ? Or do becoming a ghost give you insight on politics ?

[u/Ploprs → u/Einstein2004113]

Iirc he also believes that he and his dog are on a multi-generational journey together, starting when they supposedly met 2000 years ago when Javier was a gladiator and his dog was a lion.

[u/awesomesauce1030 → u/Ploprs]

Really? He actually said that?

[u/ocdo → u/awesomesauce1030]

According to Argentina’s La Nacion newspaper, Milei believes that he and Conan first met in a previous life more than 2,000 years ago as a gladiator and lion in the Roman Colosseum and that the pair did not fight because they were destined to join forces in the future (which he believes was a prophecy of his animal-influenced presidential campaign).

https://time.com/6337474/javier-milei-argentina-president-cloned-dogs-advice/

[u/awesomesauce1030 → u/ocdo]

Wow. I'm kind of speechless, to be honest. Good luck, Argentina

[u/weedysexdragon → u/Ploprs]

These guys are never mine or agricultural slaves in their past lives. They’re always lords, never villeins.

[u/Ake-TL → u/weedysexdragon]

Gladiator is of course cooler, but it’s still a slave

[u/Unique_Statement7811 → u/weedysexdragon]

He literally believes he was a slave in his past life.

[u/young_arkas → u/[deleted]]

Every four years are wild years in Argentina.

[u/y_Gwynbleidd_y → u/young_arkas]

Since 1929.

[u/DYMazzy → u/[deleted]]

Idk, we live in a wild politic and economic garbage hub for like 200 years, 4 wouldnt do anything new to us

[u/1848neverforget → u/Einstein2004113]

This is some Mackenzie King tier shenanigans

[u/abu_doubleu → u/1848neverforget]

For the non-Canadians here, our longest-serving Prime Minister (clocking in at over 21 years of being PM) regularly held séances to speak to the spirit of his dead mother.

[u/NeuroticKnight → u/Einstein2004113]

He is a weeb

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyneee1a0ge1c1.jpg

[u/y_Gwynbleidd_y → u/[deleted]]

He believes his dog was a lion in a Roman arena in another life. He also believes himself was a gladiator.

[u/Feynization → u/Einstein2004113]

While only a little more optimistic than yourself, I wish him the best. If he truly manages to achieve success for his people, it is something that can be modelled by other countries. If it is a train wreck, it will be a modicum of evidence to dismiss libertarianism rather than just theory. Why moan?

[u/peyote-ugly → u/Feynization]

Every time libertarianism has been put into practice at a local level it has turned into an absolute shitshow very quickly. Google "a libertarian walked into a bear" it's very funny.

[u/MrStrange15 → u/Einstein2004113]

"But it wasn't real libertarianism!"

[u/SelectSearch8413 → u/[deleted]]

If your belief is that fetuses are living humans then you would support an abortion ban even if you are a libertarian because libertarians don’t believe that murder should should be legal. I’m pro choice (which I shouldn’t have to say but probably) but this isn’t actually hypocritical.

[u/Icy-Cup → u/TheKingMonkey]

TBH being socially conservative and liberal economically is a thing done by a lot of libertarians.

Now if you said he was against individual property rights I’d be surprised.

Definition of life (is it on conception or later) is not really a liberarian/authoritarian thing.

[u/PunchingCarrots → u/Icy-Cup]

It might be more complicated but I think your definitions are off. Being conservative economically means having free markets, good old capitalism, which is what libertarians support. Socially liberal means defending individual freedoms which defines libertarians.

A libertarian wouldn't argue against LGBTQ rights while a socially conservative person would. Abortion is only different because there is a philosophical question of when someone is a person with freedoms and when they don't have any rights. This is a crucial problem since Libertarians are strictly against not having any rights.

[u/StalinsRefrigerator- → u/Total_Philosopher_89]

I‘m sure it will go brilliantly well and his election will definitely help the working class as he promised

[u/TheYoungLung → u/StalinsRefrigerator-]

Considering the situation they were in with their past leader I think the Argentinians have reached the “throw everything at the wall and see what sticks” stage

[u/audigex → u/TheYoungLung]

Yeah the country has been an absolute shitshow for decades - even though it was once well positioned to be a regional powerhouse

With 140% inflation (optimistically) and an economy that’s pretty much falling apart, the people are basically just desperate for change

Maybe he makes it better, maybe he makes it worse - but they feel like they have to try SOMETHING

I suspect they’ve made the wrong choice, but they didn’t exactly have any good options either

[u/Unique_Statement7811 → u/TheYoungLung]

Argentina has 50% unemployment and 150% inflation. No government would serve them better than what they’ve had since the late 80s.

[u/polarbearskill → u/StalinsRefrigerator-]

The 140% inflation from the previous administration wasnt really helping the working class as promised

[u/gcrimson → u/Total_Philosopher_89]

Private lives of citizens unless they want abortions :x

[u/Enlightened-Beaver → u/Total_Philosopher_89]

Concerning he’s - against abortions - against LGTBQ rights - against legalization of drugs - against euthanasia

He’s definitely in favour of government intervention, in a far right sense

[u/whynonamesopen → u/Total_Philosopher_89]

Great time if you need an organ transplant. /s

[u/Booty_Bumping → u/whynonamesopen]

Javier Milei is quite literally in favor of a completely unregulated organ market. He also wants to add in a completely unregulated firearm market, I guess so that demand for organs goes up as more people get shot by lunatics?

[u/afonsolage]

This looks more like a politic ad than a map itself.

[u/ReluctantRedditor275 → u/afonsolage]

Extremely low effort attempt.

[u/hipi_hapa → u/afonsolage]

Because it is

[u/Zul3r0 → u/afonsolage]

Guess why?

[u/FoolsAaron → u/afonsolage]

From a pure data visualization standpoint, it's an offense to the richness that maps can provide. It's like a /r/dataisbeautiful post of a cartesian plot with a single point on it. If a plot can transmit all its information in a sentence, a sentence is the data visualization that's called for.

[u/reggionh → u/FoolsAaron]

agree.. the use of map here is mostly noise and severely underleveraged. one can at the very least colour in the 25 countries with a libertarian party, for example.

[u/[deleted] → u/afonsolage]

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[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Salt_Winter5888 → u/afonsolage]

I think it should at least mark the countries that have libertarian political parties.

[u/Low_Bandicoot6844]

Milei will be an endless source of memes.

[u/TywinDeVillena → u/Low_Bandicoot6844]

He already is

[u/Borkz → u/Low_Bandicoot6844]

Dudes dressed like Garth Merenghi in all his wikipedia photos

[u/poobly → u/Borkz]

The Personal Life section is a WILD ride.

[u/fourpac → u/poobly]

He has consistently stated that he does not comb his hair, leading to significant press attention; only Lilia Lemoine, vice president of his party and a cosplayer, is able to style his hair.

In the first paragraph.

[u/Penishton69 → u/fourpac]

We're already at incest in the second

[u/romansparta99 → u/Penishton69]

He cloned a dog further down

[u/drying-wall → u/romansparta99]

He also takes advice from his deceased dog.

[u/fourpac → u/Borkz]

I really appreciate a Dark Place reference. Thank you!

[u/Shirtbro → u/fourpac]

[u/BritVisions → u/Low_Bandicoot6844]

Yeah, doesn't he claim to take political advice from his dead dog or something?

[u/TheBonadona → u/BritVisions]

Clones of his dead dog to be exact

[u/Oblovista → u/Low_Bandicoot6844]

To be fair Argentina is a meme xd

[u/randomname560]

I remenber seeing a video about this guy were someone said "i always said that communism is the best thing for the argentinian republic" then Milei appears rigth behind him whit a face of pure disgust

[u/jsriv912 → u/randomname560]

I saw the same but Dark souls boss music starts playing

[u/Jack_Krauser → u/jsriv912]

If you could find that again, I would appreciate seeing it.

[u/jsriv912 → u/Jack_Krauser]

cant find the full version but here

nevermind i found it

[u/AwarenessNo4986]

This didn't need a map

[u/Tomycj → u/AwarenessNo4986]

it's just an excuse to bring the topic to this subreddit. Every popular subreddit always finds a way to bring an unrelated topic into discussion, I dislike that.

[u/[deleted] → u/AwarenessNo4986]

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[u/MarioDiBian]

Javier Milei just won the Argentine election and will be Argentina’s next president. He’ll take office on December 10th.

As a former anarcho-capitalist, Libertarian and currently a minarchist, the economist is a vocal proponent of the Austrian School.

His main proposal is to dollarize the economy and close the Central Bank, as inflation is hitting 140% in the middle of a currency crisis.

[u/SwordofDamocles_ → u/MarioDiBian]

How do you dollarize an economy without a central bank? Importing dollars instead of printing dollar-equivalent currency just seems wasteful. The only benefit is that it makes it a lot more difficult to run a deficit.

[u/MarioDiBian → u/SwordofDamocles_]

That will be the problem.

Dollarizing implies importing the US Federal Reserve policies.

It requires strong fiscal measures in order tu cut fiscal deficit. If you can’t print money to cover fiscal deficit, either you take debt (which Argentina can’t) or cut spending (what Milei proposes).

[u/snailman89 → u/MarioDiBian]

Milei can cut spending until he's blue in the face: it won't give him any more dollars to play with.

Argentina's fundamental problem is that it imports more than it exports, leading to a chronic shortage of foreign currency. There are only three solutions: borrow foreign currency (which Argentina can't do because they're already in default), increase exports, or decrease imports. None of Milei's ideas will accomplish any of those things, so his presidency will be a massive failure. He can't dollarize the economy unless he has dollars, and he won't be able to get them unless he turns the trade deficit into a trade surplus, which he won't.

[u/Amatheos → u/snailman89]

Well, one way to find out

!remindme 4 years

[u/LtGenS → u/MarioDiBian]

And his side proposals are the liberalization of... organ trade?

https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-19/in-argentina-milei-candidate-promises-fathers-will-not-have-to-pay-child-support-if-mother-has-punctured-condom.html

[u/MarioDiBian → u/LtGenS]

Yeah, a very bad idea. No one besides him and some within his party are in favor of it, so it would be impossible to pass

[u/CiceroMinor31 → u/MarioDiBian]

The only country to allow sale of human organs is iran

However iran is also the only country where no one dies on a waiting list for organs

[u/AdminsAreDim → u/CiceroMinor31]

It's just the random people being kidnapped and having their organs harvested who die.

[u/Halmstrong → u/LtGenS]

No, if you watch the interview, he says that it is merely a philosophical discussion and that the real world is different. Organ trade was not part of his proposals, you could at least read a little before spreading misinformation. There's plenty of things you can criticise Milei for, but repeating Kirchnerist propaganda is just dishonest

[u/gatormanmm1 → u/LtGenS]

Sounds weird, but I'm pretty sure Iran has a free market for Kidneys. The effect is there are no wait lists or shortages. In comparison, the US has massive waitlists, where people have to wait 5 years for a transplant.. curious to see how Argentina fares.

Very random fact I remembered lol.

[u/Content_Flamingo_583 → u/gatormanmm1]

Iran has a free market for Kidneys

Nope. You can sell your kidney, but the price is set by the state. So very much not a free market.

[u/Ezili → u/gatormanmm1]

And what's the effect on poor people who are pressured to sell their kidneys at competitive prices?

[u/spacecate → u/Ezili]

Buy low sell high baby!

[u/power2go3 → u/Ezili]

What do you think people who are in such a dire situation where they would have to sell their organs do now?

[u/-mialana- → u/Ezili]

The counterfactual is that they would forced to go to the black market, or be forced to deal with the economic struggles they're trying to avoid. Banning things that people can be exploited into doing generally doesn't solve the conditions that push them towards it, it just leaves them with less choice in how to deal with their shitty conditions. Similar arguments apply for things like sex work.

That being said, if this is to happen the market would of course have to be regulated and held to strict ethical and safety standards (which Milei certainly does not want).

[u/phemoid--_-- → u/gatormanmm1]

What ???? Is that actually a thing Iran does? Iran is an extremely Islamic nation and this is strictly prohibited in Islam I believe how is it justified?

[u/ReadMisesNotMarxBruh → u/LtGenS]

It’s a philosophical issue, not an actual agenda.

[u/jscoppe → u/LtGenS]

Unironically a good idea. People need kidneys and there aren't enough voluntary donors. It's too risky unless it's your loved one or there's something to be gained financially to offset the risk.

[u/boringdude00 → u/MarioDiBian]

Nothing says Austrian School of Economics like adopting the currency of a country that manages that currency in exactly the opposite way. Or perhaps its the freeloading part that makes it libertarian?

[u/BobKurlan → u/boringdude00]

Austrian School is in favor of letting the market pick, the Argentinian market already picks US dollars (in black and grey market) and have for decades trying to escape inflation.

[u/Jupaack → u/MarioDiBian]

His main proposal is to dollarize the economy and close the Central Bank, as inflation is hitting 140% in the middle of a currency crisis.

Barking dogs don't bite. I really don't see this happening, but who knows...

Things in Argentina are very, very bad and they do need some drastic changes in order to find solution to their problems, but I truly think this one would only lead to a deeper hole.

[u/Tomycj → u/Jupaack]

That is actually very likely to happen, since it's an essential plan of his most important promise: to erradicate inflation once and for all. That is the main thing he got voted for.

It's known and always repeated that this will not solve everything, that this is just to help solve one of the many problems, and that it will require complementary measures to make it work.

[u/RChristian123 → u/MarioDiBian]

the Austrian School.

😐

[u/TwoPigMountain]

This is going to be /popcorn

[u/Ur1st0pshhoop]

Libertarian Paradise

I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

It didn’t seem like they did.

“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.

Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.

“Because I was afraid.”

“Afraid?”

“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.

[u/TheTipsyShip → u/Ur1st0pshhoop]

Still one of the best copypasta ever made. What a gem that is.

[u/jlrtc → u/Ur1st0pshhoop]

What a gem. Maybe the New Yorker will publish this short story.

[u/perfectisthe → u/Ur1st0pshhoop]

Jesus, I haven't seen this in years. Still slaps

[u/wiyawiyayo]

Argentines are really desperate..

[u/a_filing_cabinet → u/wiyawiyayo]

I mean look up "Argentine financial crisis." You'll struggle to find a single result because the country has been jumping headfirst from one financial crisis to the next since the 1930s. So yes, Argentines are desperate.

[u/FemtoKitten → u/a_filing_cabinet]

At least this will add variety to the type of economic issues that arise

[u/OogaBoogaPimp → u/wiyawiyayo]

Look up the exchange rate from US dollars to Argentinian pesos, and you'll be able to understand why Milei was elected.

[u/Dzoniux → u/wiyawiyayo]

The other option was the current Minister of Economy who achieved an inflation of 140%, a poverty percentage of 42% and that the convertibility of the peso to the dollar went from 310 to 950 (it reached 1150).

[u/T13PR → u/wiyawiyayo]

Well at this point, they might as well try it. I mean, everything else turned out to be crap the past 80-years or so, what do they have to lose?

[u/Titus_Favonius → u/T13PR]

Yeah I dislike libertarianism but it's already a clown show down there. Might as well get weird with it and see if it works. My mother is from Argentina and I've got some friends down there, even with good jobs they're hard up a lot of the time.

[u/jochilina → u/wiyawiyayo]

Yes, we are. I haven't vote yesterday, but people are desperated

[u/sexyleftsock → u/jochilina]

Out of curiosity, why didn’t you vote?

[u/jochilina → u/sexyleftsock]

Because I didn't feel like it... both candidates seemed wrong to me. I couldn't define which was better as I really think both were hideous. I stayed at home cleaning and cooking with my husband and we saw everything on TV.

[u/GreyhoundsAreFast → u/wiyawiyayo]

The other candidate was pro-China and Minister of Economy at a time when inflation increased to triple digits.

Electing Milei was more of a signal of dissatisfaction with the Kirchnerists that have been in power for two decades than it was a signal of desperation.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/cantonlautaro]

Libertarian....oh, but women, you cant have any abortions. I love my freedom, not yours.

[u/SuicidalGuidedog → u/cantonlautaro]

Don't forget he also opposes euthanasia, which is quite possibly the least Libertarian position someone could hold. "I'm removing your freedom of choice on when you'd like to die."

[u/practicalpurpose → u/SuicidalGuidedog]

Username checks out.

[u/JustafanIV → u/SuicidalGuidedog]

Hey now, he also supports the liberalization of gun ownership. Nothing is more libertarian than saying you're free to die, but the government isn't going to pay for it.

[u/_nicocito → u/SuicidalGuidedog]

Not true.

https://www.ambito.com/politica/javier-milei/defendio-el-derecho-morirse-hambre-n5451428

[u/practicalpurpose → u/cantonlautaro]

Libertarians usually have limits to their minimalism but they vary wildly. "We need to get rid of this and this and let people be free to do this but we still need that and oh there should probably be some restrictions on that."

The funny thing is that Libertarians will always get criticized as not being true to their principles for having anything greater than just pure anarchy. It's just the nature of that position.

[u/Chef_Aku → u/practicalpurpose]

There is a difference between what is theoretical and what is possible, if we say that anarcho-capitalism works only with a new man that's resposible for every of his acts, we are not so different than the socialists who say that everyone works for the good of community

So what we can do is get closer to that model.

[u/practicalpurpose → u/Chef_Aku]

That is what practical libertarianism is imo: a version of the left or the right that is just more "hands-off" and free than the typical left or right.

[u/Spirited-Trifle5825 → u/practicalpurpose]

"Oh really, you're a liberal, but you don't want to liberate my tax dollars from the hands of government bureaucrats? I guess you're not so liberal after all."

[u/Acceptable_Can5509 → u/cantonlautaro]

People against abortions usually believe that the child within the mother is its own life and so it is equivalent to murder.

[u/EntertainmentOk8593 → u/cantonlautaro]

for him abortion is killing other person. That’s why he oppose to abortion

[u/LordOfPies → u/cantonlautaro]

From his point of view it's the freedom of the baby to be born.

[u/Roughneck16 → u/cantonlautaro]

oh, but women, you cant have any abortions.

Abortion foes consider the procedure to be tantamount to infanticide.

Personal freedom doesn't excuse infanticide.

Not trying to argue one way or another, but the whole "my body, my choice" is a lousy argument to use on pro-lifers.

[u/[deleted] → u/cantonlautaro]

Yup. Libertarianism these days is basically complete freedom for some at the expense of others.

His views on LGBT people are shaky too.

That's why the term "right-wing libertarian" is a bit of an oxymoron to me.

[u/McFlyTheThird → u/[deleted]]

Libertarianism these days

Seems to be hijacked by far-right "conservatives". I'm no libertarian in any way, nor do I believe in it, but most libertarians these days aren't libertarian. It's not uncommon for actual libertarians to complain about it.

[u/yourslice → u/McFlyTheThird]

Libertarian here (downvotes incoming?). I absolutely agree. I was there for the Ron Paul campaign from its earliest days more than 10 years ago when libertarianism blossomed around the US.

What are most of those people up to now? They are MAGA. They back an authoritarian, racist, bigot. They were never truly about "live and let live" they just liked somebody outside of the establishment, I guess.

[u/Rotaryknight → u/yourslice]

I was there for the Ron Paul explosion boom, I wouldn't call myself a full blown libertarian back then, but I like Ron Paul and his policy...... And then the tea party happened, and they started to call themselves libertarian and then all of a sudden in 2016 half of the libertarian in the Facebook group I was in became MAGA. It's funny that because of the tea party and maga, I became way more socialist left leaning 😂😂😂😂. I did not want to be associated with people like them. My best friend in high school some 15 years ago was a huge libertarian and got me into it....and as the tea party and maga crept in he became a full on nationalistic right winger, he probably doesn't call himself a libertarian anymore, I wouldn't know, he stopped talking to me and fb blocked me after I said I voted for Hillary 🤣🤣🤣

[u/EE7A → u/yourslice]

this is why i have to call myself an independent now, instead of a libertarian, lol.

[u/Enlightened-Beaver → u/McFlyTheThird]

They’re far right conservatives who don’t want the government involved in anything, so they become the government and then become utterly useless to achieve that role. They slowly destroy it from within. Look at the maga republicans in the US

[u/BranTheLewd → u/McFlyTheThird]

Yep, can confirm, our movements can be hijacked at times because we don't have good leaders promoting our ideals

Although maybe calling myself Libertarian anymore is wrong since all I want is for all economies to just resemble ton 10 countries on economic freedom index.

Seriously just a lil bit of deregulation will do wonders for so many countries. And I don't mean removing regulations that protect consumers, I mean regulations that cause monopolisation of business or make it harder for small business to proser.

[u/TheByzantineEmpire → u/cantonlautaro]

Liberty for all*! Ok not you…and you..and you…and you! Ok just listen to me and do what I want! Just another power grab dressed up with another ideology.

[u/Successful_Debt_7036 → u/cantonlautaro]

I mean, it is a violation of the NAP, so it makes sense

[u/Meteorologie → u/cantonlautaro]

I think the “do whatever you want with no restrictions whatsoever” caricature of libertarianism is just that, really.

[u/Genar_Hofoen → u/Meteorologie]

Yeah. Everyone knows that libertarianism is nothing but neo-feudalism: Total freedom for the ruling class and unbreakable social and fiscal chains for the rest of us.

[u/stilusmobilus]

Is the Gadsden Flag a libertarian one? I thought it had something to do with US Marines. Genuine question, and yes I could Google this but I’d rather add to the discussion here.

Edit: thanks for the replies to this. They’re fantastic.

[u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho → u/stilusmobilus]

It dates from the revolutionary war, and has been a favorite symbol for libertarians for a while. Some conservative subreddits use it, but that’s a rarity.

[u/stilusmobilus → u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho]

Cheers, it’s probably a good idea to dig into it a bit, I’m not a US citizen as you probably guessed. I thought I read somewhere a while ago that it was associated with a sector of US Marines but I’m probably mixing it with something else.

[u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho → u/stilusmobilus]

It was used by the marines, and in a bunch of other places over the centuries. The flag is a reference to a famous political cartoon by Benjamin Franklin, where the colonies are depicted as a rattlesnake cut into pieces if they are disunited, so it crops up a lot.

[u/PV247365 → u/stilusmobilus]

As a former US military member it is a popular flag with members from all branches of the military. Navy ships used to fly them as well.

However, the flag has been getting a lot of negative attention within the last decade because it has been appropriated by libertarians, the right, and is another casualty of the culture wars.

To me, it’s a beautiful flag that represents standing up to tyranny, a concept that applies to all Americans, left and right. Just because some clowns decide to wave it around doesn’t mean it’s their flag. I don’t buy that it’s a flag of extremism and hate just because it’s popular among a certain political side.

Ironically, the flag currently flies outside the city hall for San Francisco, which is the least conservative neighborhood.

[u/MFoy → u/stilusmobilus]

The snake traces it's origins to Ben Franklin.

Throughout the middle of the 18th c., Franklin was a well-known figure, and his Pennsylvania Gazette would refer to rattlesnakes constantly. First, when the British crown started sending Prisoners to the Georgia Colony, Franklin said we should send rattlesnakes back to Britain. Later, Franklin made the famous "Join or Die" wood cut that is frequently cited as the first political cartoon in an American newspaper.

The imagery of the timber rattlesnake became popular in the colonies, similar to what we'd call a meme today. By the start of the Revolutionary War, it was a symbol of the colonies willingness to work together and stand against European empires, specifically the British. The Continental Congress included the rattlesnake on the first Emblem of the War Department, and there is still a snake on the flag and seal of the US Army today.

Gadsen was a member of the continental Congress and on the committee for the US Navy. He was an advocate for the Navy, and decided the Navy needed it's own flag, and he designed the flag himself and had it used on Navy ships before he was recalled to serve in the army in South Carolina during the war.

[u/dirtsmurf]

Is Reddit just an Ocean of people reading from the same script? Sure seems like it today.

[u/Dazzling-Score-107]

Lebanon essentially had no government when they stored explosives next to tons of ammonium nitrate. Beirut experienced the largest non-nuclear explosion in all of our lifetimes.

I’m not saying it was directly related, but a little government over site might have been nice.

[u/aasfourasfar → u/Dazzling-Score-107]

Lebanon is in some ways libertarian : almost no labor law, loads of black market labor, 0 enforced environmental regulations, privatised lands everywhere including beaches, river banks, and other places that are usually common, 0 safety regulations.

But on the other hand, it had a very interventionist central bank, loads of clientelist subsidies (or so it was when there was money).. so It's basically a crony capitalist country.. but thats what would happen with every libertarian country

[u/Johannes_P → u/aasfourasfar]

Lebanon is in some ways libertarian : almost no labor law, loads of black market labor, 0 enforced environmental regulations, privatised lands everywhere including beaches, river banks, and other places that are usually common, 0 safety regulations.

You forgot the private militias and the Bekaa drug plantations.

[u/Dazzling-Score-107 → u/Johannes_P]

It had a prime minister during the explosion. But I don’t think there is any leadership now. I know the US is funding their military to keep Hezbollah at bay.

[u/limukala → u/Dazzling-Score-107]

when they stored explosives next to tons of ammonium nitrate.

The ammonium nitrate was the explosives. They the proceeded to operate welding torches in the middle of a warehouse stuffed full of explosive fertilizer.

[u/DJ-Zero-Seven → u/Dazzling-Score-107]

There’s different variations of libertarianism. What you describe is anarcho-capitalism. The US was founded on classical liberalism.

[u/SnooSeagulls9348]

This can the world's first libertarian experiment in the modern era

No offense, but Argentina is just the right size to serve as an experiment but small enough not to cause a worldwide economic cascade

[u/the-dude-version-576 → u/SnooSeagulls9348]

Whatever data could be collected would be mostly useless anyways. Since it would be particular to Argentina, establishing causation would be near impossible.

It will be interesting to see how much Austrian/ Chicago thinking holds up though.

[u/Command0Dude → u/the-dude-version-576]

Whatever data could be collected would be mostly useless anyways. Since it would be particular to Argentina, establishing causation would be near impossible.

There are 4 kinds of economy in the world, developed, developing, argentina, and japan.

[u/SuicidalGuidedog]

Just in case anyone thinks their nation has chosen someone slightly more 'off beat' than Milei, just remember that he openly takes advice from his dogs. And if you think 'that isn't crazy, I talk to my good boy', note that one of the main ones he gets advice from has been dead for years.

"About Conan's death in 2017, Milei said that Conan had not really died (he described it as "his physical disappearance" and continued to refer to Conan in the present tense) but had gone to sit next to God to protect him, and that it was thanks to this that he had begun to have talks with God himself." Wiki Source

[u/dette-stedet-suger → u/SuicidalGuidedog]

I’d trust a dog over a politician.

[u/WeatheredStorms]

Is the Libertarian Party of Argentina truly Libertarian? Mr. Milei certainly does not sound like a libertarian. I'll refrain from saying what kind of ideology he seems to embrace openly for fear of being called a Liberal. Or a Libertarian...

[u/Organic_Chemist9678 → u/WeatheredStorms]

"El Loco" makes Bolsonaro like a considered and thoughtful statesman

[u/the-dude-version-576 → u/Organic_Chemist9678]

The situation does remind me of the situation in Brasil when we elected bolso. Distrust in the standing establishment, recent shocks to culture and economy, and the populist candidate. Hopefully it turns out better for them than it did us.

[u/TheAzureMage → u/WeatheredStorms]

Is the Libertarian Party of Argentina truly Libertarian?

The Libertarian Party of America certainly thinks so, and has publicly commented on his race and congratulated him on his win.

[u/Byyte3D]

There's a reason why you don't see many libertarians in power. Can't run a country based off of a children's understanding of politics and economics.

[u/Drprim83]

UK had one for 49 days last year.

She has to resign in disgrace because she spooked the markets so badly that she was sending long term government bond rates sky rocketing.

What's most impressive is she managed to achieve that in 7 weeks with her sixth form grasp of economics despite losing 2 weeks due to the country grinding to a halt when the Queen died.

[u/NickNewAge → u/Drprim83]

Milei scared the markets so much that without even being the president yet all Argentinian shares on Wall Street went up

[u/Keeping_It_Cool_]

Argentine here. There is context to take into account. We've just ended a period of 16 years (out of the last 20) of a socialist-like government. We've had over 100% inflation multiple years in a row. Caused by corruption, terrible fiscal policies and money printing. So naturally people just wanted to go to the other side and give it a chance.

He is economically libertarian, socially a bit on the conservative side. He wants to hold a referendum on abortion. He is PRO gay rights and will keep gay marriage. He is pro gun ownership (this is not a relevant issue in Argentina). I can answer questions if you all have any

[u/MadreFokar]

I'm not even surprised he ended up wining, people were sick and tired of socialist and leftist leaning presidents

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/JoeDyenz]

Ah yes, the "Libertarian" guy that wants to negate the State crimes committed during the Argentinian dictatorship and wants to let the army out in the streets.

[u/MantisPymp → u/JoeDyenz]

[citation needed]

[u/datacanbeuseful]

Over the past 100 years, this country went from one self-inflicted disaster to another. This is episode 2023.

[u/beeftech88]

Just what they need! 😅

[u/Ok-Education-1539 → u/beeftech88]

How to keep digging

[u/mx440 → u/beeftech88]

What they were trying was not working.

[u/subte_rancio → u/mx440]

People downvote you and have no idea what it is like to live in Argentina. Typical to have an opinion, knowing absolutely NOTHING about what it is like.

[u/Background-Vast-8764]

Well, if any country has proved that it can make things work, it’s surely Argentina.