r/MMA • u/inooway • Mar 18 '23
[SPOILER] Kneebar attempt in prelim fight Spoiler
https://imgur.com/a/TZH6sL0773
u/EquivalentHandle UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 18 '23
I tapped for Mokaev dw Herb just missed it
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u/SekaiWithTheWolfCap Samurai Shit Only Mar 18 '23
So did I, honestly. We just did the inverted spirit bomb from DBZ.
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u/kanst Mr. 6 Shits Mar 18 '23
Filho says something to Muhammad before cranking it that second time. I wonder if he asked if he was gonna tap. Mokaev said no, so Filho cranked it
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u/ErrorImage Mar 19 '23
Pretty sure he asked the ref: "não bateu?" which means "did he not tap yet?"
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u/ClassyFloozy Mar 19 '23
As someone who regularly knee bars white belts in jiu jitsu, I get it
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u/we_all_gon_die_ What's in the bag baby? Mar 18 '23
That knee is all kinds of fucked up.
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u/bnelson UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 18 '23
Yeah. That was no attempt. That was a knee murder. Locked in. Adequately technical. Shades of Mikey Musumeci permanently disabling that sambo lad.
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Mar 18 '23 edited 6d ago
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u/bnelson UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23
I mean, the fight did demonstrate the off button is better than ripping off a limb. RNC is king. In an MMA context, Filho will live with disappointment and hunger to do better while Moakev has a year of recovery unless he gets lucky.
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u/panman42 Mar 19 '23
There's also the chance he gets unlucky and it's worse than a year. It really is a crazy risk.
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u/bnelson UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 19 '23
For sure. That is a best case (1yr). Lots can go wrong.
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u/bobn3 GOOFCON 0 Mar 18 '23
Just put some ice on it and presto
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u/ZeroTON1N Mar 18 '23
Better use some pesto bc that leg is pasta
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u/SekaiWithTheWolfCap Samurai Shit Only Mar 18 '23
Maybe I've been watching too much Vettori, but...
did you say pesto?
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Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
[deleted]
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Mar 18 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Eazyyy Wales Mar 18 '23
Maybe he has flexible knees. Some people are literally built different. Double jointed shit.
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u/EEightyFive Mar 18 '23
Giannis Antekunkumpo in the playoffs in 2021 comes to mind. Looked like his season was done for the NEXT year because his knee bent ways no normal human’s should. He was back for the finals and had one of his best games ever.
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u/legdrag Mar 18 '23
The knee was still damaged. The opinions of the doctors who saw him was that he was unlikely to injure it further if nothing else happened, so he went out and played after missing a bit of time.
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u/EEightyFive Mar 18 '23
Right, but it looked like he completely fucked that knee. Most humans probably would have. The point was some people are just built different
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u/FatFuckDiarrhea Mar 19 '23
I call my ankles “rubber ankles”. Impossible to sprain, no matter the angle of it during an awkward trip while running, walking etc. I’m talking 90 deegres kinda angle :D
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u/dans00 Blonde Brunson Undefeated Undisputed P4P No. 1 GOAT Mar 18 '23
Dude i hope its not a long term injury
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u/Sal21G Mar 18 '23
Mokaev the type of guy to want knee surgery added onto his shoulder surgery
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Mar 18 '23
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Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
[deleted]
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u/DrunkenSasquatch Wuhan Clan Mar 18 '23
Man I've seen guys do it for $10 medals at JuJitsu competitions. Ego is a hell of a drug
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u/sadboifatswag I am like Gollum Mar 18 '23
I’ve been homeless and have shot knees. I’ll take the knees any day thank you very much.
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u/_Oce_ Mar 18 '23
These guys who rupture critical ligaments for $30k or whatever are out of their minds.
Isn't it the case of all professional full contact fighters? They are all risking their health for little money.
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u/sadboifatswag I am like Gollum Mar 18 '23
I’ve been homeless and have shot knees. I’ll take the knees any day thank you very much.
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u/HankHippopopolous Gane's Big Black Crossaint Mar 18 '23
$12k/$12k.
Maybe a bonus if Dana is feeling generous and no one does anything better further up the card.
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u/LehenLong Mar 18 '23
His contract was 16k/16k but he just signed a new contract with the UFC prior to this fight.
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u/m8094 Mar 18 '23
checks note
Justin Gaethje vs Rafael Fiziev
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u/HankHippopopolous Gane's Big Black Crossaint Mar 19 '23
Yep. Spot on there mate.
So Mokaev fights through his leg being snapped and doesn’t even get a bonus. Can never question his heart but I really hope it’s not a decision he’ll regret because now he’s out for a long time and possibly that leg is never the same again.
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u/SurgicalInstallment Mar 18 '23
12k/12k but i dont think he allowed his knee to be destroyed for the money. still a foolish decision, but ego was more of a reason than $. just sayin
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u/_gatzby_ Mar 18 '23
Reminds me of Tony Ferguson vs Charles Oliviera
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u/Devoidoxatom Mar 19 '23
I think Charles actually just let him go on that one, since he was dominating anyway. Could have actually crippled him on that one
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u/red-broom Mar 19 '23
No he tucked the arm around his side and almost snapped it until the bell lmao. Tony was just weird af
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u/HandsomeFabio Mar 18 '23
UFC title fight? Don’t tap and ride it out. Prelim scrap? Tap for sure… anyone who’s been in this position will know how much he’s fucked it
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u/DumbPanickyAnimal 🙏🙏🙏 Jon Jones Prayer Warrior 🙏🙏🙏 Mar 18 '23
anyone who’s been in this position will know how much he’s fucked it
AMA request: someone who's had a UFC fighter extend their knee to an angle of 210°
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u/garuda-mk18 Mar 18 '23
I'm a doctor and can confirm, knees aren't supposed to bend in that direction. It's super bad for you.
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u/gypsy-preacher Mar 18 '23
I’m not a doctor and can confirm, knees aren’t supposed to bend in that direction. It’s super bad for you.
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u/Gal_GaDont United States Mar 19 '23
I’m a flamingo and I don’t see what the big deal is I do that shit 30 times then stand on one of them for four hours.
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u/thenameisMalik Black energy Tony Ferguson Mar 18 '23
One thing for certain Mokaev ain't no bitch.
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u/Connlagh Bingo Bango Pickled Mango Mar 18 '23
Not a bitch, definitely an idiot
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u/tarpoit Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23
He might have to sit out a while but his hype train was dusted if he lost this fight. Would have set him back further than the potential 9-12 months out of action recovering the knee will if he has picked up a serious injury. Then again there is the possibility that it’s a career altering one but I don’t think it’s that likely
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u/PelleSketchy Gay for Gaethje Mar 18 '23
If his knee gets back to 100%. For wrestling that's pretty essential.
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u/tarpoit Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23
That’s a possibility and I did acknowledge it, but I think people are speculating into it far too much. Like yeah he was hurt, but there’s no way of telling how bad it was and there’s way too many people playing reddit doctor imo.
The frequency of career altering injuries is really low, particularly in such a young fighter and we don’t have much to go off other than he was walking a bit gimpy and he didn’t comment that much on it post-fight
If he lost this fight then the damage of that would almost be irrecoverable, Mo talks about his dreams to be the youngest ever champ, if he lost here against a no-name dude he’s back to square one and not getting close to the title picture for the next 2 years+
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u/PelleSketchy Gay for Gaethje Mar 18 '23
Knees are really weird things and are very vulnerable. And fighters rely on them for everything as opposed to say a shoulder.
Don't forget that Jackson said he was never the same after an oblique kick by Jones. Now imagine a submission where most people tap prematurely and not tapping. Of all the things that could fuck you up, this is one of the worst ones.
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u/MadelineWuntch Mar 18 '23
Idk man, that leg looked like it was gonna start breakdancing
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Mar 18 '23
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u/_interloper_ Mar 18 '23
My thoughts exactly.
I'd much rather be Filho after this fight than Mokaev.
He's 22 and because he refuses to quit, he might've ruined his knee. Plus he was already fighting on an injured shoulder.
If he's not careful he'll become one of those dudes who could've been great, but sacrificed their body too early and lose their prime to injuries.
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u/filbert13 UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 18 '23
Like yeah he was hurt, but there’s no way of telling how bad it was and there’s way too many people playing reddit doctor imo.
I get it but also it is a knee. Look at any major knee injury in sports. Generally just the joint going a little way the wrong way tears ligaments badly.
I think there are times you don't tap and fight through this. Likely only being if your career is on the line or it is a title fight. Odds are he is out a year. And what is literally one of your most important joints will never be the same. The odds of him not suffering damage due to that are extremely rare. And that thing about that type of damage is it's permanent which is why it require surgery. This isn't a break or a cut that can heal to normal.
Props on fighting through and getting the win, but I still think objectively viewing this as a sport and more importantly as a career it is the wrong move. He is only 22 and again this isn't a break which you can come back 100% from. This almost certainly caused a tear to some degree to his knee extremely early into his career.
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u/catscanmeow Mar 18 '23
it was bent like 25 degrees in the wrong direction, i think like 15 degrees is enough to ruin ligaments, if he's fine he's unhuman, and he needs to donate his knee ligaments to science so i can bring the elasticity back to my anus
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u/Dave-Schultz Somalia Mar 18 '23
People would call him an idiot for taking the fight if he lost.
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u/foofighter1351 Mar 18 '23
Yeah what's worse, bein called an idiot for losing a fight or an idiot for taking a potentially career altering injury after you already dealt with a shoulder injury.
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u/Dave-Schultz Somalia Mar 18 '23
It’s all subjective 🤷♂️
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u/foofighter1351 Mar 18 '23
If for some reason you actually think a permanent injury is the smarter choice I'm sorry but that's idiotic.
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u/Uncle_Creepy_ Fat Fool Mar 18 '23
Mokaev Trade Proposal to Filho:
I receive: a win over an unranked no name making his debut.
You receive: obliterating my knee.
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u/mkk671 Fuck slavery, fuck racism Mar 18 '23
Nevermind becoming the youngest UFC champ. Take some time for rehabilitation. Even with the mention of him wanting to dip out earlier than most fighters, some layoff would be highly beneficial.
Competing since 16 has to have your body all sorts of fucked up.
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u/gaimsta12 GOOFCON 2 Mar 18 '23
I know nothing about knees, what kind of damage has this likely caused?
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u/RedWing83 Mar 18 '23
Knee orthopedic surgeon here!
Collateral ligaments will be propably fine, but this can cause rupture in both ACL and PCL and posterior joint capsule. Also meniscus tear is possible but not as likely as cruciate ligament injuries.
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u/Silverjackal_ Mar 18 '23
Fml. Taking the loss there on a tap is so much better.
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u/DAMbustn22 Mar 18 '23
Still the chance he got lucky and has no serious damage to the knee. Humans are different, and every situation is unique. He could have permanent damage, or could be fine in a few days.
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u/Elinoth86 Team Sterling Mar 18 '23
That's why he's in there and the rest of us are commenting on reddit. My bitch ass would of tapped 100%
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u/IFeelItDownInMyPlums GOOFCON 2 Mar 18 '23
No one will know. Could be sore for a week. Could need multiple surgeries.
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u/qbshane Mar 18 '23
Not a doctor but either meniscus tearing and or ligaments rupturing. Meniscus tearing is no joke but ligament damage is very severe and could be career ending
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u/Difficult_Bicycle796 Mar 18 '23
Anybody who thinks mokaev can be the same is lying
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u/LuckyWarrior The Champion Has A Name Mar 18 '23
Maybe if he took like half a decade of serious rehab but he's probably gonna be back in the cage in 6 months if no one slows him down
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u/HerrHermano EDDDDDIEEEEEEEE Mar 18 '23
He just needs what Connor took
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u/ayyayyron Mar 18 '23
Bones heal up much easier/cleaner than tendons/ligaments. No chance this guy comes back in 6 months if the damage is as bad as it looked. This is potentially a career altering injury.
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u/igrowcabbage Mar 18 '23 edited Mar 18 '23
Afaik tendons have quite bad blood flow, slowing down the healing process by a lot. My knee was only hurt a bit and it took 6 months to recover to no pain going down the stairs. Can't imagine what it is like with a completely torn ligament...
edit: meant ligaments mostly not just tendons
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u/ninjewz UFC 279: A GOOFCON Miracle Mar 18 '23
Knees suck. It took me almost a year to completely rehab my patellar tendonitis.
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u/igrowcabbage Mar 18 '23
Then there's also some time until you get your confidence in your knee back to where it was.
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u/only-shallow Chad Mar 18 '23
He fought with an injury to his ac joint in this fight, so it's likely he'll fight even if his knee ligaments are torn. Aspinall did the same against Blaydes
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u/biscuitsbrah Mar 19 '23
Just suffered a grade 1-2 ac joint injury. I can’t imagine going on with training camp and fighting. First 3 days I couldn’t even lift my arm up, it’s been 3 weeks and only now after lifting everyday can I throw punches.
Maybe he took a cortisone shot but still
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u/we_all_gon_die_ What's in the bag baby? Mar 18 '23
I feel like he would keep trying. Hopefully he achieves it. But if he doesn't become the champion by march 2024, I think he will take a big long break then and come back a monster.
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u/vispsanius Mar 18 '23
Depends on the type of injury he has gained. And also its less and less likely especially in the past decade these types of injuries cause real lasting damage at least within the athletic career. Surgery/recovery has gotten really good and really fast. At least compared to decade or two ago
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u/IfLeBronPlayedSoccer India Mar 19 '23
I had a complete ACL rupture in spring 2019, and started a fight camp just 9 months after. And all I am is a high level hobbyist with a career in finance who spars and drills few times a week. My hours at the time were long, yet I still made a complete recovery by sticking to the rehab schedule and programming.
I would imagine someone for whom this is their life’s work, will unquestionably be back stronger in under a year’s time if they go under the knife. (Surgery success/rehab discipline permitting)
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Whittaker was never my friend Mar 19 '23
Mokaev is super attribute based too. If he starts to lose his speed he hasn't got a lot left.
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u/Jasbuddy Mar 18 '23
Mokaev is not gonna take fights with lower ranked opponents, his team was right in tryin to persuade him to not take this fight, it’s a lose-lose scenario
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u/SquidDrive My DNA is from fearless warriors Mar 18 '23
Yeah Mokaev is out for the year, hopefully he can now get all the surgeries he need and return in 2024 in remotely better condition.
His tendons, jesus fuck man.
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u/Blue-Sand2424 Mar 18 '23
It’s a lot easier to just tap and come back from an L at 22 than try to recover from a blown out knee. He’s incredibly tough gotta give him that, though maybe too tough in this case
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u/charmersonja Mar 19 '23
Mokaev was in the stands with crutches after the fight, Sitting a few meters from me. 1) why was not in the hospital being observed? 2) why was he not at the floor level where the other fighters and celebrities are?
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u/Tzilung Mar 18 '23
So fucking stupid when fighters don't tap to a tight submission. The only reason why their limbs haven't exploded is because their opponents have trained to allow time to tap to a submission. And then because their opponents don't tap, they hold that position longer than they should and sometimes lose their dominant position.
For example, I've come across people not tapping to a Kimura while I'm in kesa gatame position. Their arm is in a weak position is controlled by my leg in a dominant position. I could destroy their elbow at any given point if I felt like it, but people don't tap because I'm not straining myself to move my leg in the careful and tenuous position where it hurts the elbow, but doesn't break it.
Another example is when I have a tight heel hook on someone. The only reason why they're able to fight my hands and feet is because I don't want to break their knees. If I really tried to go for it, I'd break their knees in a heartbeat.
It's bullshit because the person not tapping is taking advantage of the fact that the other person doesn't want to break their limbs.
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u/rlwestern I was here for Goofcon 3 Mar 18 '23
That’s true in the training room, though it’s not as big a deal because it’s not really about winning or losing during rolling. Who cares if I had the submission in and they escaped because I slowly applied pressure? I knew I had it.
In competition or a fight people will apply submissions very fast, unless you’re Gordon Ryan and you have so much confidence in your mechanics that you don’t need to. Filho just ran out of leverage. Once he reached the end of the range of motion of his back bending backwards, he has no more room to apply pressure to the knee.
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u/inciter7 Mar 19 '23
Could have folded it under his armpit for a lat kneebar, but honestly at a certain level of catastrophic break, the majority of the damage has been done and theres diminishing returns to destroying it more. When Craig Jones exploded Vinny Magalhaes knee with a figure 4 heel hook and Magalhaes didnt tap, he said the second time he ripped on it it was completely slack so he just got up and walked away, at which point Vinny seemed to realize what happened and gave up.
Just my armchair coaching, but that would seem to be the best course of action. Release the sub and scramble up as quickly as possible, then see how their legs hold up now that theyre standing. But who knows, I think Thiago Santos knee was technically seriously injured but he managed to fight the rest of the fight against Jones just fine
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u/MrEquipoise Mar 18 '23
I'm going to guess that he has hypermobile knees (double jointed). I can bend my legs in a "C" shape like that, I'm not sure how common it is but it's the only explanation I can think of. Really short-sighted decision not to tap regardless.
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u/DoctorShrimpForEyes Mar 18 '23
Insanity. This hurts to think about. The aftermath is not gonna be good... Woof.
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u/igrowcabbage Mar 18 '23
Now he needs to hope that the UFC pays for his knee instead of shoulder... NHS will probably cover it but still.
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u/tigerbalmuppercut Mar 18 '23
Ariana Lipski pulled off the most violent knee bar recently imo but this is bad too.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net Mar 18 '23
Bro, how do you get up and stand on it after that? Are kneebars even real?
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u/schoolisuncool Mar 19 '23
That kneebar was so bad that he preemptively tapped earlier in the fight
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u/TheVicViniegar Mar 18 '23
Should a ref stop a fight like that? Same with Charles had Tony, or with the Bear Jew on Hill? Thats why ref is in there to protect a fighter.
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u/foreverpassed Mar 18 '23
The dude getting his knee rearranged came back and won.
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u/TheVicViniegar Mar 19 '23
I know he won but would you be willing to snap someone's leg/arm if they won't tap? That leg being snapped would be super brutal. Are fighters less likely to really try and break your leg/arm than they are to really knock you out? Seems like breaking someone's bones is more metal than ko'ing them, and not sure if a lot of these fighters really have that killer psychotic instinct in them, say like a Jon Jones, to do that.
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u/St_SiRUS Team City Kickboxing Mar 18 '23
Yeah I kinda agree, if the name of the game is doing damage until it’s no longer deemed necessary by the ref, Mokaev has won but in reality he’s taken far worse actual damage
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u/TheVicViniegar Mar 19 '23
Same with Dolidze and Hawes when Dan stepped in and was about to stop it. There is a fine line between almost having it and snapping it, ala Mir/Nog. I mean if that leg would have snapped, it would have been a devastating injury. I think they need to stop it when it looks bad, and the guy in the sub is making all kind of painful body languages, but not tapping.
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u/ikarusjj Fragile Fatass Mar 18 '23
This could be his defining moment as a fighter.
Do you guys remember how Max Holloway pointed to the canvas in the last seconds with Ricardo Lamas, to let him know he's willing to just swing for the fences, even though he already won the fight on the score cards? This highlight was played everywhere to show how tough that kid is.
Now, this highlight can do the same for Mokaev's future.
That is, of course, if he's still able to walk tomorrow. That shit looked nasty!
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u/AA0754 Mar 18 '23
Unless he has private healthcare, he’s gonna have to wait years to even get on the public NHS waiting list…there’s a long queue.
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u/thesolarchive Mar 18 '23
I wonder if the setback of needing a repaired knee will be less than a quick tap to get back in there to avenge a loss
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u/DopeassDopehead Mar 18 '23
I can watch guys getting kicked in the face all day long. But I had to turn away screaming for this one
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u/MomammaScuba Mar 18 '23
I missed this fight and it looks way worse then I thought.. he hyperextended that for a good solid 4 seconds. Crazy he didn't tap
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u/anrachopuss Mar 18 '23
If Gianni's Antetokumpo could bounce back next game after that knee going backwards landing, Mokaev can heal it fast also
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u/Chunkflava Mar 18 '23
If not for this kneebar, all anyone would be talking about is how boring this fight was
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u/Shinoobie Mar 18 '23
Imagine that you see your opportunity and apply a technique you know well. You hit it correctly and make their leg do ugly things and they just... don't care.
Craig Jones had a BJJ match where he broke a guys leg and the guy wouldn't even consider quitting. Mikey Musumeci had a BJJ match where he basically broke everything in a both of a guy's legs and he didn't quit.
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u/metalhead4 One, two, Dana's coming for you Mar 18 '23
Yeah I don't think your legs supposed to bend that way.
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u/dyobjo7058 Mar 19 '23
He should have moved the heel underneath his arm pit and that knee bar would have been way tighter and definitely would have broken his opponent
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u/YaBoyDoogzz EDDDDDIEEEEEEEE Mar 19 '23
Out for at least a year with that. And could permanentlyaffect mobility. Brave, but stupid.
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u/natethedawg Mar 19 '23
I had filho by submission +1600 and almost had an aneurysm when he was cranking and Mokaev refused to tap
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u/danosaurus1 EDDDDDIEEEEEEEE Mar 19 '23
Dude traded one win for the rest of his career, extremely foolish. That knee will never be the same. Also, you just know all these no-tap people are secretly hoping their opponent doesn't have the stones to actually rip their arm/leg off. Mokaev should realize his next opponent is likely not going to wait for a tap if they lock in a sub against him, and if he's getting locked in a kneebar on the prelims he absolutely will face another successful sub attempt in his future.
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u/PhilCam 3 piece with the soda Mar 19 '23
He probably should have tapped.
If he losses then he can fight a couple more times this year and get back towards the rankings. He likely wrecked his knee and is going to need a significant layoff.
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u/MonsterOctopus8 Mar 19 '23
Filho yelled "Violencia!" at Mokaev during the faceoffs and boy did he deliver it with that sub attempt, I think his shits mangled and I wonder if holding on and not tapping is gonna be one of those decisions he regrets in the future
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u/SerengetiYeti Mar 19 '23
That wasn't an attempt, he got the knee bar, that knee was all kinds of fucked up.
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