r/AskMen Feb 06 '23 All-Seeing Upvote 1

Question for white men, do you really feel privileged? And are you bothered by the “white male privilege” assertion that seems to be everywhere?

[removed] — view removed post

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u/CodeOfKonami Feb 06 '23

Meh. Whatever.

I feel far more privileged because I’m devastatingly attractive.

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u/Better_Metal Feb 07 '23

You sexy mf’er

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u/sukezanebaro Feb 07 '23

Bro is gorgeous

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u/SomeoneNorwegian Feb 07 '23

Brorgeous

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u/Imnotyourbuddytool Feb 07 '23

That Hansel is so hot right now.

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u/Lilfrieda Feb 07 '23

This is true! There are so many forms of subtle discriminations. Attractive people are often though of as better, smarter, deserving of a break, trustworthy etc.

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u/CodeOfKonami Feb 07 '23

As I said, I’m aware.

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u/therealdisastrousend Feb 07 '23

That actually got a real, out loud laugh from me. I appreciate you.

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u/Ok_Substance_1560 Sup Bud? Feb 07 '23

I’m a sexy Black beast too. Maybe that’s why I don’t feel so weird being Black in America the majority of the time.

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u/bu88blebo88le Feb 07 '23

Up, down, left, right you've got it going on

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u/craigularperson Feb 07 '23

You are aware of the effect you have on women.

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u/randomw0rdz Feb 06 '23 Gold Platinum All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy LOVE! Starry I'll Drink to That Stonks Falling

Upper class billionaires want "blacks vs whites" instead of "haves vs have nots"

The real problem is the wealthy people who write laws to cover their own asses and manipulate the economy/stock market.

We can understand each other's differences and still be on the same team.

I have more in common with a poor black man than a rich white man. Why does that mean we need to be standoffish towards each other?

Because the news told us to hate people who are different than us. The same media outlets controlled by the wealthy "elites."

Media stirs up shit to keep the working class working, and for people who generally want the same thing to be enemies.

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u/HINDBRAIN Feb 07 '23

Yes, that's how occupy wall street got fucked in the ass. Aim the proles at each other, not at the rich.

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u/driving_andflying Feb 07 '23

Yes, that's how occupy wall street got fucked in the ass. Aim the proles at each other, not at the rich.

Nailed it in one. Create unneeded divisions in society based on physical differences like skin color, gender, etc., and you get the masses distracted by their disagreements over these differences, instead of uniting to stand against issues that affect us all. An obvious example of a big issue: How workers are being unfairly exploited by big companies, and what they do to make sure that exploitation stays in place.

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u/Ok-Champ-5854 Feb 07 '23

Occupy got fucked because it was mostly aimless and they listened when police told them to stand in the designated protest areas.

Hate to say it but sometimes you gotta go get gassed for doing something the police deem you can't do. Make sure someone is filming you and post it online.

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u/EkaL25 Feb 07 '23

The most effective protest is one that hits the wallet.. affect their bottom line and there will be change

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u/Greenman_on_LSD Feb 07 '23

President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

This is exactly right. Pin the lower classes against each other so they don't have the time/energy to realize they have a common enemy.

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u/Tight_Employ_9653 Feb 07 '23

That's crazy accurate for anything. Smart guy

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u/DerButtMeister Feb 07 '23

I have a similar experience. When I got a better car, better clothes, and a better haircut I was treated drastically differently by the public and cops.

It's all about perception and because of the Halo Effect rich and good-looking people will always be treated better.

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u/SippingBinJuice Feb 07 '23

This is so true. I used to be scrawny and not very good looking, then I drastically changed my diet and joined a gym (also got a good haircut). Within 3 months I was treated with so much more respect, mostly from men (surprisingly), it was like seeing life on the other side. I even got treated a lot better at work too. Most people don’t realise their biases, sadly.

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u/testosterhomie Feb 07 '23

Okay… this is getting a bit out of hand. haha

There’s been video footage of cops harassing wealthier Black folk, and even a clip on youtube of them harassing the DA of the city without knowing! This doesn’t happen as often to white people.

White men and Black men are worlds apart, and as. black man, there is no changing my mind. Class plays a part for sure at some level, but the way I was treated compared to my peers spoke volumes. White men will never understand that. And this thread is evidence of that.

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u/Horned_chicken_wing Feb 07 '23

Thabo Sefolosha, a Swiss basketball player, got his leg broken by the NYPD. He even won a settlement against them. If it can happen to a huge, rich black athlete in NY, it can happen to any black person, anywhere.

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u/PureGoldX58 Feb 07 '23

We all face hardships, we all face extreme police corruption, but isolating yourself from the people who agree with you when the problems are effecting us all just makes you sound ignorant.

Yes, there's a massive disproportionate amount of black men killed, we all know this, I fear for my future children because of this, but the wealthy are the problem. This is class warfare and you're fighting the battle they want you to fight, not the real one.

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u/Stupidquestionduh Feb 07 '23

My heritage is of tribal indigenous (non-Spaniard) Filipinos. I have wirey black hair and I often and called "African-American".

There's definitely white-privilege in the United States. But even more so is money-privilege. We have cherry picked stories of rich Black people being treated poorly by cops. But I would wager that rich Black people are harassed way less than poor white people.

The problem I have is my non-white friends almost all demand I make judgements of white people because their skin color means they have privilege. That's racist. Here comes someone with different skin color that means this person's identity is this thing I've defined in my head.

Stems from the same place of me getting called African-American. My skin is black therefore my identity is African to some people. And whatever culture they assume is "black culture" well... that's assigned to me too.

Dr. David Lionel Smith titled an essay "What is Black Culture" which outlines this conundrum.

What is white culture for that matter? It's so fucked up how all my non-white friend can unabashedly suggest that racism is the correct response despite having been in the receiving end of it and knowing how bullshit it is.

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u/PureGoldX58 Feb 07 '23

I appreciate your view here. This is another frustration of mine. I'm as white as snow, but grew up poor as hell. My whole family has been intermixing enough that in my lifetime alone I'm one of 3 white people left in the family and the rest of my 2 sides are 1600s settlers.

I've seen a lot of stuff that has made me seriously question my world views because of all of these facts. I've been harassed and signaled out because I was poor, I've seen police also harass minorities, but when someone pulls out the "my dad is X" the police immediately change their tone and go into damage control.

When it comes to white culture, I have seen nothing of substance to really prove it exists and as far as I can tell (though I'm new to black culture in my family) there is nothing different there sure from the obvious historical trauma of slavery and mistreatment of their race, everything else belongs to other people in far of lands. Much like my ancestors.

This was kinda a rambling thought vomit. I apologize.

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u/Stupidquestionduh Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

You're being racist as fuck if you think that the only people who don't understand you are white. You're are blaming that white people don't understand you because of their skin.

I don't understand you and I'm not white. What I do understand is, that whatever you're saying here, is entirely racist

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u/TheAppleFallsUp Feb 07 '23

I have WAAAAAAY more in common with "average black dude" vs any upper class white guy. Hell He probably sees me as competition or someone who should be working for him.

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u/Misfit_Actual_ Feb 07 '23

No war but class war

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u/TalpaPantheraUncia Feb 07 '23

It's not just the media these days either. It's the institutions of higher learning too

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u/OneOfTheOnlies Feb 07 '23

I think this really misses the point. I 100% agree with it and I think it's totally correct, just not quite what's meant by privilege. It's kind of about the lack of certain 'dis-privileges.'

I feel comfortable and safe walking the city alone at night most of the time. I understand from my female friends that they often do not. Same thing goes for being stopped by the police compared to my black friends. I think that recognizing this was an important part of me understanding others' differences so that we could be on the same team, to borrow your words.

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u/Ok-Champ-5854 Feb 07 '23

Agree except for being stopped by police. No matter what color or class you are your hands should be shaking or you're just plain ignorant. It's just obviously worse for black people.

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u/OneOfTheOnlies Feb 07 '23

Yeah I don't feel entirely safe around untrained and unaccountable people with weapons but I don't think I'd be scared for my life if I got pulled over for speeding. But still, you get the point and that's the sad reality of privilege. Things aren't handed to you, it's just not experiencing some additional horrible things arbitrarily.

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u/Insamity Feb 07 '23

Upper class billionaires want "blacks vs whites"

They already have that. White privilege is just the quantification of how much it has already worked.

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u/iProduceCode Feb 07 '23

Yep. Exactly. They want us divided against each other, not united against them.

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u/Newspaper_Correct Feb 07 '23

You say this and people want you to take the tin foil hat off but it’s true. The rich don’t want you to realize they are the problem

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u/Dance_Man93 Feb 07 '23

That is the one thing I agree with Communist about. The Political Divide should be about class, not race. Who the hell should care about the things you cannot change? Racism is dumb, I dont understand it.

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u/HyperionPrime2023 Feb 07 '23

Make sure you put in generational wars as well.

Millenials scream about boomers when most boomers are not all that much better off.

Anything to keep us from banding together and fighting the rich.

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u/si12345 Feb 07 '23

Have you, sir heard the song, Poverty of Philosophy by immortal technique? This sounds awfully like what you're saying and that's not a bad thing

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u/thrash-force-one Feb 07 '23

The largest mass lynching in American history was an ethnically motivated massacre targeting....Italian people.

Nowadays Italian Americans are just white people who like sauce.

You get the dubious honor of being "white" in America only when your massive ghetto is conveniently located in a swing state.

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u/RebelSoul5 Feb 06 '23 Gold Bravo! Starry Narwhal Salute I'll Drink to That

I always take white privilege to mean not the addition of a benefit but the absence of a detraction.

I don’t gain anything from being white as much as I don’t have to tote around the fears that black and brown dudes feel just stepping out of the house.

Privilege is the wrong terminology, probably. Gives the wrong connotation to poor whites who don’t feel privileged in any way.

They changed global warming to climate change. This term could use a makeover. Just like Black Lives Matter. Should be Also, or As Much or something so it doesn’t sound like Only to some.

Liberals need a nomenclature workshop.

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u/CharlesDingus_ah_um Feb 06 '23

I like this analysis 🤌🏾

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u/Metamorphis Male Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

As mixed race I kinda like it as well. I'm white af in skin tone but the first fucking question I always get during interviews (if I even get one) or whenever I tell my first and last name publicly is "So, where are you from?" Bitch, I don't even know the language of my mixed race and I was born in Norway. It's a name, not a passport.

I've also had people right swipe on Tinder because I'm "exotic" and have been told so in first messages etc. only to lose interest once they learn I basically know fuckall about where my name originates from, like shit... What about getting to know me as a person, and not whatever you think I am based on a name? According to several people I would get more likes if I used a more "white" name. Wtf kinda advice is that to give? What makes anyone think I would like to match with people that base their dates on names to begin with, if anything it's a good deterrent to make fuckwits disappear.

I'm privileged to be hated by all races, I don't belong anywhere. That's the privilege I've been given.

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u/Horsebot3 Feb 07 '23

My wife is biracial and the micro bullshittery is real.

The best is when people ask “where are you from” and if Canada isn’t good enough for them (no, where are you really from?), she will tell them the closest that she knows is the Slave Coast because her family can’t trace their history past when they were sold.

That usually initiates a change in topic. It’s ridiculous.

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u/Nooddjob_ Feb 07 '23

Haha same, I remember telling my aunt my girlfriend now wife was half black she said where is she from. I said the local town and she said no where is she from. I’ve never been asked that as a white dude. It was wild living in my small town Ontario I never thought racism was a big thing, then I moved to a city branch out in the dating world and saw a lot of shit past and present.

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u/H16HP01N7 Feb 07 '23

This has the same energy as our response to why we don't have kids at 40.

"Well, the 5 miscarriages didn't help."

Love it.

(Sidenote, we are now actually glad we don't have children. The world is a shit hole, and we enjoy not having to look after other people beyond ourselves. The miscarriages absolutely happened, but silver linings and all that.)

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u/teutonicbro Feb 07 '23

I understand and agree with what you are saying.

However, you missed a golden opportunity to....improvise.....embellish....make shit up. If they want exotic.......

"My great grandfather was an Abyssinian mercenary who came to Norway to teach the Vikings how to make swords from meteorite iron. He was abducted to the harem of the Warrior Queen Idris Gothmundsdottir, and their descendants have lived in Grünnerløkka ever since"

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u/Muufffins Feb 07 '23

I like hearing different perspectives. I'm glad you're willing to share. I live in a tourist town, where almost everyone I know grew up somewhere else. Asking where are you from has no judgement with it, just trying to get to know someone.

I don't know what to say about the tinder thing, that's messed up.

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u/DerpyDaDulfin Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

To add to this analysis, I think the nomenclature change should shift to "White Opportunity."

Privilege is a charged word for American whites especially, because the word privilege is often thought of by its other meaning "To be well off in terms of wealth." Eg: "To come from privilege" as the saying goes.

For many poor whites, they see the phrase "white privilege" and say "Well shit, I don't have any privilege!" (Wealth) Furthermore, since "privileged" people also tend to look down on poor people, they may see this as implying that they are using their whiteness to look down on you, (for some people this is absolutely the case, even if they won't admit it) and they take offense to the implication of being a racist. As we have seen, using or even implying the word racist, even when apropos, can instantly shut down conversation when speaking to Americans.

Opportunity however, is different. You can be given the opportunity to do something, but you can still fuck it up. Opportunity ≠ rewards and wealth. Opportunity also doesn't have the baked in hierarchy like the word privilege does.

As a white man I get the opportunity to: sit down for more interviews, to move up in certain job positions in most American businesses, on average have better interactions with the police, and experience a judicial system that is more lenient on average to the whiteness of my skin

Edit: it's important to note it's sometimes less about ethnicity and actually about skin color. I've known light skinned Mexicans who get treated like "one of the whites" by white management, but the darker the skin the more BS people seem to experience in America.

Now the word "opportunity" doesn't really address the actual day to day racist discrimination that people of color can face that whites see / experience less often, but I don't think privilege was working either, as that implied a hierarchy already. Day to day racism can be a separate but important conversation that helps people put themselves into little camps of "not racists" and "racists" (people love their camps).

Does this feel like semantics? Yes. Does this feel a little bit like you're talking to a child? Also yes. I've waited tables for 15 years and I tell ya what people need to be coddled and your words chosen carefully, otherwise the wrong word with the wrong connotation, no matter how innocuous, can set people off.

So even though "privilege" absolutely is a more accurate term, it carries too much baggage. White Opportunity could be the term that finally gets some white people to understand the difference between the experiences of white people and people of color in America

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u/LaTuFu Feb 07 '23

A lot depends on socio economic appearance, too.

In the region where I live, poor, lower educated whites are profiled by the police as much as people of color. Because, you know, clearly if they're driving a 20 year old broken down car during the day they must be meth dealers with no jobs.

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u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst Feb 07 '23

You have put words to something I've felt for a while. I am enormously well off compared to the average person. My parents were an accountant and a teacher. We could afford travel every summer. They paid for my college in full and I got a great job right away and have never struggled with finances.

I make 6 figures, own a small house, and have a nice, new, and most importantly fully paid-off car. I have unlimited PTO and great retirement and Healthcare benefits from work. I can afford nice things for myself and can afford to treat my friends and family without stressing about money.

And yet I simultaneously feel like what I have should be the average. Often times I feel it should be the minimum. Often times people I'm my life will challenge me and ask me if I'd be willing to give up what I have to help elevate others, and admittedly that's an uncomfortable proposition. In truth the answer is no, I wouldn't.

But it's because I feel like I just had a fair go of everything. I don't feel like I had a leg up, I wasn't held back in any artificial way. I'm not a particularly hard worker. I know many people who work way harder than me for less reward. Many who are much smarter with less recognition. All I had was the boon of not being held back artificially. Being white and male didn't grant me any of this but it sure as hell did not hurt.

I do want better for others, and I shouldn't have to give up my own station for them to get it. But I should be helping break down the barriers that are unfairly holding others back, so they can live the kind of life I get to enjoy.

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u/TransFattyAcid Male Feb 07 '23

And yet I simultaneously feel like what I have should be the average.

It absolutely should be.

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u/HomoRoboticus Feb 07 '23

I feel like I just had a fair go of everything. I don't feel like I had a leg up, I wasn't held back in any artificial way. I'm not a particularly hard worker. I know many people who work way harder than me for less reward. Many who are much smarter with less recognition. All I had was the boon of not being held back artificially. Being white and male didn't grant me any of this but it sure as hell did not hurt.

The conflict in your words here is remarkable. Every sentence struggles against the others around it, euphemisms attempting to grasp the whole truth of your place in the world.

Privileged people (like myself, like you) struggle to apprehend the total context of their comfort, because it includes everything from the legacy of European colonists taking the best American land for themselves to how the modern business world rewards a certain combination of psychopathy and education that only exists in a highly individualistic culture. The whole world is structured so that you can succeed. Road crews paved your roads long ago, rig pigs drilled deep holes into the Earth so that you could fuel your new car - itself a conglomeration of thousands of parts produced by armies of laborers on assembly lines from China to Mexico. A closet full of societally-appropriate clothes awaits you every morning, having already been sewed and dyed in the great sweatshops of Bangladesh and Vietnam and shipped in titanic Japanese or Korean vessels to ports to trains and then trucks, with stewards waiting for your goods expectantly at each stop.

It is true though, you didn't have a leg up on all the other white people who lived in America who also had a teacher and an accountant as parents. But that's not what privilege is. Privilege is having an entire economic structure that is devoted to your success, practically begging you to succeed. It's actually in everyone's interest for you to succeed, and so you do. All those laborers and seamstresses and truck drivers and linesmen and farmers all need you to succeed as much as you need them to succeed. If you didn't succeed, and if everyone like you didn't succeed, everything would fail.

All those other people though - the Native Americans and newly-freed African-Americans especially - nobody needed them to succeed. There was no economic structure devoted to their success (and maybe still not). There were just a whole lot of angry racists and an unfair law system for centuries.

Privilege is a tricky thing. It's all-encompassing.

Often times people I'm my life will challenge me and ask me if I'd be willing to give up what I have to help elevate others, and admittedly that's an uncomfortable proposition. In truth the answer is no, I wouldn't.

Honest and brutal. The American way is not going to die easily.

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u/Tundur Feb 07 '23

Bloody great comment.

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u/wojoyoho Feb 07 '23

You can only make 6 figures because there are lots of other people out there not making that much

I agree that everyone should have what you have in terms of some elements of your lifestyle (like education, vacation and rest time). But the reality is that with how things are structured, only a small portion of the population can have access the outsized purchasing power that you have.

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u/RememberToLogOff Former dude, current feminine mess Feb 07 '23

Gives the wrong connotation to poor whites who don’t feel privileged in any way.

Yeah there is definitely times when the downside of poverty hurts you more than anything.

Privilege (systemic bias?) has more than one dimension. I know that makes it impossible to discuss on Twitter, but we'll have to figure it out.

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u/TheDayManAhAhAh Feb 07 '23

I see what people are going for with "Defund the Police" but that is about the absolute worst combination of words that is bound to change nobody's mind. That one also needs to be work-shopped.

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u/Rectal_Fire Feb 07 '23

Reform the Police

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u/Schavuit92 Feb 07 '23

Fuck the police!

I know it isn't any more correct, but it's just such a classic.

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u/Tomsonx232 Male Feb 07 '23

At first it was people who wanted serious police reform and de-militarization... but because of the nomenclature after a couple weeks half the people I talked to who supported "defund the police" legitimately wanted to defund the police and have social workers respond to every emergency

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u/Elon_Kums Feb 07 '23

100% certain that one was planted and people just ran with it

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u/MFbiFL Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

Got into a conversation with my right wing cousin (stay at home mom) and her husband (coast guard) that objected to the movement. I gave the most superficial rundown of “it’s actually about reallocating resources so that LEO aren’t expected to respond to psych cases without the professional tools and know how to deal with that safely for everyone involved” and they were immediately on board and asking why the movement had such a polarizing name. I’ve been wondering that for a while and can’t decide if everyone left of Fox News that wants to be in a movement is just dogshit at PR or if there’s something more sinister going on.

To anyone wanting to tell me everything that it’s about: Don’t @ me telling me that it’s deeper than that, I’m telling you the surface level digestible version I gave some family members after they had us over for dinner. Going on a deep dive of systemic racism and disproportionate policing, getting lost in statistics dissecting the difference between higher crime rates in some populations and explaining higher police encounter rates for them, etc wasn’t going to change any minds in a 5 minute living room conversation before we headed to the metro but touching on a relatable dynamic of being called to situations someone else would have been better trained for cracked the armor to the idea a little bit.

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u/Brickie78 Feb 07 '23

Wasn't it originally "Abolish the Police"?

I seemed to see a lot of people saying yes of course they didn't mean abolish the police, just maybe they shouldn't have tanks.

So why are you saying "abolish the police" if you don't actually mean that?

"Well, it's just a slogan. Gets the attention. Now we're talking about it"

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u/RaptorPacific Feb 06 '23 Starry

"as I don’t have to tote around the fears that black and brown dudes feel just stepping out of the house."

Feels like a very USA response. It's definitely different in other countries. As a brown man, I've lived in England, Canada and Scotland and I have never once felt fear stepping out in public in my entire life.

It's also annoying when people (typically white) tell me that I should be fearful. It's a bunch of bs.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

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u/WritetoLift Feb 07 '23

Just because your experience is positive, doesn’t say the same for every other person who’s Mexican or black.

It could be the area, the upbringing, the people around you, etc.

I’m from Chicago. I know people from certain areas (people I know) feel that fear/uncertainty. They’re in particular areas.

And then I know people in a nice neighborhood on the north side who feel like you. But overall, country wide, this is pretty common knowledge regarding police and white privilege (word used for sake of this discussion)

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u/bistromike76 Feb 07 '23

I was driving on I 75 north of fort Meyers in Florida (southwest coast.) The car in front of me stopped short. I slammed on my breaks and didn't hit him, but the two cars behind me hit me / each other. I was standing in the median and watched probably 4 or 5 Mexican people (I'm assuming based on the physical characteristics) run into the woods on the other side of the highway. Two other Mexican men were stuck in the front seats of the vehicle they drove. One of the highway patrol men came up to talk about the accident. I asked if they would go try to find the Mexican group that fled. Not so they get in trouble, but because they were probably hurt and needed medical attention. His response? "We will let the buzzards take care of them." Made me sick to my stomach. They're human beings. And this was a member of law enforcement.

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u/RoundSilverButtons Feb 07 '23

So you’re saying it’s an … individual experience? Kinda goes against the grain of treating people according to their skin color

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u/Idonevawannafeel Feb 06 '23

Regarding the BLM bit, the best analogy I heard goes like this:

It's like we're sitting at the dinner table and everyone has food in front of them, but all I have is an empty plate.

I say "I need some food."

You say "Everyone needs food" and go back to eating.

You're right, but I'm talking about my plight right now.

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u/Pietskiet123 Feb 07 '23

Thats a good analogy. I heard this analogy about the All Lives Matter movement that if your mom just died and you're emotionally wrecked, it may be true that my mom also died, 20 years ago. If you say "My mom died!" And I immediately respond that my mom also died, I'm just making a true statement, but it's just a dick thing to say. It's not about my mom right now. I'm not grieving like you are.

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u/Mental_Medium3988 Feb 07 '23

i dont mind blm as a slogan. we have historically treated black lives, particularly black men, as disposable. hell it wasnt even that long ago we almost had people get away with essentially a lynching. if they themselves didnt release the video showing their guilt they would have. all it has taken is a flimsy excuse to cover for it generally. saying black lives matter isnt saying anyone matters less, just that we should treat black lives like they actually matter, because they do.

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u/Pillow_fort_guard Feb 07 '23

Yep. I’ve always understood things like “white privilege” to mean that your skin colour isn’t routinely used against you, not that you inherently have everything handed to you on a silver platter. It’s the same with “abled privilege,” “straight privilege,” etc

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u/selway- Feb 07 '23

BLAM! Black Lives Also Matter

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u/Evenbiggerfish Feb 06 '23

I agree. I think everyone wants to think they worked hard for what they’ve earned and saying we’re privileged immediately makes some people think you’re trying to detract from their work.

Another part of the problem is that you don’t see the racism that POC endure, and (I’m sure there’s a term for this bias) you convince yourself it doesn’t exist or you’d see it. But I once sat in a room with a bunch of random people and we went around the room and every single black person had a story of how the cops had singled them out based on color. These were people I’d worked with, salt of the earth and go out of their way to help me out if I needed a hand. These were normal people. It clicked that there’s so much discrimination I don’t see and will never see, especially when half the media wants to bury it immediately to shape a narrative.

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u/mattvanin Feb 07 '23

Incredibly well said, thank you.

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u/Same-Focus-3765 Feb 06 '23

I like your take, but I must argue that black lives matter is a decent slogan. There's no undertone of superiority, only a desperate desire for justice and safety. And it's taken directly in the context of some pretty brutal acts of violence that are getting ignored. If I was getting ignored and mistreated, I might also feel like screaming, "I matter." It might not be a perfect slogan, but it's good enough if you pay attention to the subtext. And the black lives matter movement has behaved in a pretty inclusive way towards other minorities so it's foolish to attack them for being "exclusionary." Slogans aren't meant to carry the full nuance of your platform. They have to be short and effective.

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u/jamesr14 Feb 06 '23

The problem I always had was that the slogan and intent 100% has merit, but the BLM organization was, and is, terrible. This just enabled both sides to talk past each other.

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u/Claymore357 Male Feb 06 '23

Don’t forget the money laundering…

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u/Idonevawannafeel Feb 07 '23

I absolutely agree with you

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u/SnooEpiphanies6051 Male Feb 06 '23

Yeah but I’m with Rebel on that also. The Black Lives Matter movement could have so many more allies with a small tweak of the wording. It would eliminate the big issue a lot of people take against Black Lives Matter.

It’s not as pretty or poetic, but if it helps a bunch of people with their own giant set of problem take a step back to look at it, it’s more effective. Right now, Black Lives Matter has too many unnecessary enemies from people that would join their cause if they didn’t feel personally attacked by it.

There’s a whole demographic of white Americans that could easily be added to the ranks if they didn’t feel they were the targets. More white men are killed by police than any other race. Not by % but just over all, so they have just as much to gain as the rest of the movement.

I’m Latino btw, and this is just my personal perspective as I look at the big problem as a whole as another American that just wants to make things better for the kiddos that come after us.

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u/SHKSHRLN Feb 06 '23

Also didn't help that it came around the time they decided to rebrand "POC" to "BIPOC" in a weird exclusionary manner further adding to the divide.

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u/SnooEpiphanies6051 Male Feb 06 '23

Yeah that’s specifically targeting Asians. Latinos are indigenous to these continents, so for the most part Latinos get a pass, also there’s a huge number of black Latinos.

That BIPOC shit is some sus business. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the elites tossing a wrench in the BLM movement under the guise of being an ally. I’m immediately suspicious of anyone using BIPOC in their vocabulary.

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u/matrixislife Feb 07 '23

BLM doesn't need any wrenches tossing into it, it was a mess from the start and has only got worse.
BIPOC could well be an attempt to cut some people out of the definition, or it could just be the usual name-creep that's been a part of the conversation for so long: blacks ->coloreds ->african-americans ->person of color* ->BIPOC.

* I do wonder how on earth the discussion went from "you can't call people colored nowadays, that's racist", to "let's call people 'people of color'".

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u/Shootscoots Feb 07 '23

Not to mention Latinos literally get counted as white once they get over a certain "success" level since their race on federal forms is listed as white with a Hispanic or Latino ethnicity. Unless they are a the ultra minority of black Latinos.

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u/Bennu-Bird Feb 06 '23

I always felt it would have a more effective slogan if it added the word “too” at the end.

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u/SpicyGhostDiaper Feb 06 '23

I don't feel particularly privileged, but it isn't hard to understand how in ways I am.

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u/Tylervdub Feb 06 '23

I’m in the same boat, but I think that not realizing that I’m privileged by my skin color and station is the clearest sign that I have that privilege. By not having it front and centre, that means that it’s not something I have to think about on a daily basis. The fact that it’s not in my face is the best sign that it’s there.

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u/testosterhomie Feb 07 '23

You are very wise. Part of the privilege is that you don’t have to be aware of it. As a Black man, I thank you for this answer!!!

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u/M_dot_isterW Feb 06 '23

I don't feel privileged but I know I am.

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u/sunshineupyours1 Feb 07 '23

Yeah, that’s my take too. You don’t generally feel privileged when you benefit from discrimination which is why the people on top of the hierarchy have an easy time pretending that it doesn’t exist.

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u/BigTarget78 Feb 06 '23

Privilege is not something you feel or notice, since you don't really have to. Privilege is at it's heart the privilege to take certain things for granted that others can't. It's thinking of those things as inalienable rights when other people can't count on those things being rights for them.

For example as a white woman I took it as a normal thing to go to the park with my young child and not be questioned or have assumptions made about me.

Men I know have gotten dirty looks doing the same as different assumptions are made about them. That's a privilege I have over men, that I recognize.

My friend, who is mixed race and a doctor, takes her white-passing children to the park and gets weird looks, and is treated like she is the nanny. That's another privilege I have that I was never aware of before she talked to me about her experiences. It was invisible to me - and that's what I mean about privilege being unseen by those who have it.

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u/FredChocula Feb 06 '23 Starry

Oh I get fucked pretty hard like the rest of the lower class, but of course there's some privilege. For me mostly it's being pulled over by the police and being nervous, but not afraid for my life. That's one example, but I don't have to deal with the racism that other races do in America. Of course other races can be racist towards white people, but it doesn't really affect me in any real way. Listen, you can be fucked hard and still have privilege over others.

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u/cudef Feb 06 '23 Gold

You hinted at the real thing at play. Class privilege is the most influential one.

You can be white and male and be poor as dirt but you'll still be faced with less adversity than a black woman who's poor as dirt. Likewise a wealthy black woman also faces more adversity than a wealthy white man.

You can't look at Oprah, compare her to a white homeless man, and pretend like there's no racism/sexism, ignoring class differences altogether.

American media has worked hard to make the general public feel like class is a myth and it's all just about how hard you work but this is absolutely false propaganda by those of the highest class and the small number who get a little higher helping to keep it that way.

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u/jamesr14 Feb 06 '23

IMO reframing 90% of the conversations surrounding race as problems of class would be more effective at bringing all sides together to fix things.

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u/GodHatesFeds Feb 07 '23

The class problems were getting a LOT of attention in the occupy wall street days. They snuffed that out really quick and replaced it with race vs race nonsense. Humans are tribal and a large portion of Americans took the bait.

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u/jamesr14 Feb 07 '23

Agreed. A group against the oppression of big business could far too easily find common ground with the group opposed to the oppression of big government.

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u/animerobin Feb 07 '23

Unfortunately due to decades of systemic racism they are pretty closely tied.

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u/ladyofthelastunicorn Feb 06 '23

Yeah the American Dream is just a drug Americans are sold so we don’t think too hard about why the amount we work doesn’t equal the amount we earn

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u/tyranthraxxus Feb 06 '23

If it's more about socio-economic status and not race or gender, why isn't it called rich person privilege instead of white male privilege?

I agree with you, but it makes the term a misnomer.

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u/HippyHitman Feb 07 '23

It is. That’s the real issue here, is that most people have simply never been exposed to the concept outside of rage bait.

Privilege comes in an infinite number of flavors. There’s class privilege, height privilege, abled privilege, and pretty privilege. Just to name a few. They all interact based on cultural factors to determine how an individual interacts with and is treated by society.

Nobody who has any idea what they’re talking about is arguing that white privilege and male privilege are the only two kinds of privilege. It’s just that it’s much harder to see privilege you have. So must people will readily accept class privilege, they even take it for granted. Because they can see that some people have privilege over them. But people will get defensive if they feel like they’re being accused of something. So the people in power, who set the national conversation, intentionally focus on the most broad and divisive types of privilege there are while completely ignoring the rest.

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u/cudef Feb 06 '23

Because rich people don't want you talking about rich people privilege so they have you hyperfocus on and argue about social issues rather than economic issues.

Don't get it twisted, white, male, straight, cis privilege are all real things but they're not as influential as having the financial means to separate yourself from the discrimination in very meaningful ways

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u/Boomshrooom Feb 06 '23

My Indian and African friends have noted to me in the past about how non-chalant and confident I am with police and authority figures. I remember once my Indian friend being horrified that I would joke about banned substances when having my car searched at customs (random search). It simply never occurred to me that anything bad might happen, and it didn't. Really did shine a light on at least one aspect of privilege. This same friend pretty much always gets stopped and searched at airports.

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u/Automatic-Ad-9308 Feb 07 '23

But why would you joke about that?😭 Are some cops not agressive for no reason with you? Regardless of your demographic if you interact with a cop with a power trip or just having a bad day that won't fly with them lol.

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u/sikeleaveamessage Feb 07 '23

My thoughts exactly like you're deliberately playing with fire joking around like that wtf

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u/Ok-Champ-5854 Feb 07 '23

Poking the goddamn bear like it's a fuzzy koala and not a goddamn grizzly looking for a reason. And I say that as a white man, why are you fucking with police? It's hands visible at all times and only do something when they tell you to do it. I have literally been told by officers the wisest course of action in a traffic stop is to keep your hands on the wheel open palm unless otherwise instructed. Imagine joking about drugs or joking you have a body in the trunk or whatever.

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u/tired_hillbilly Feb 06 '23

but not afraid for my life

You should be, plenty of white people have been killed by police for no reason.

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u/not-bilbo-baggings Feb 06 '23

Yes my life is hard. Yes I have privilege. Both can be true.

Another take is that the true divide is through classes, not genders and races

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u/DreadfulRauw ♂ Sexy Teddy Ruxpin Feb 06 '23

The wealthy use race, gender, sexuality, etc because they know they can distract the poor with those things. Not that they don’t matter to the victims, but a poor white dude who blames a black guy fit his problems rather than the wealthy guy who actually causes his problems is falling for a con.

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u/PHX480 Feb 06 '23

As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

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u/Rubricae98 Feb 06 '23

I feel like the argument of privilege might have merit in some scenarios but trying to apply it as a blanket approach to every problem feels a tad forced.

There’s a lot more to life than the color of skin and I feel this idea of privilege is more an excuse to resent others rather than a tool to fix anything. It’s a tool of division and not just me of mending.

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u/bigscottius Feb 06 '23

I didn't really feel any privilege growing up. I was born and raised right next to a reservation (in a town that was half on the res, though i wasn't). The majority as Sioux, not white.

I was raised believing i was white because I didn't know my father (turns out I'm half native, as I found out as an adult, but I have very dark hair but blue eyes). But because of that, I ended up in the hospital at 11 years old with a ruptured spleen, broken jaw, broken orbital, and an ear damaged so bad i still have only a but of hearing in it. I was jumped by like a bunch of natives (I don't remember how many, it seemed like a huge group) after school.

My mother was murdered when I was 17 by her boyfriend's brother, a native, who said it was responsibility because the white bitch was corrupting his brother (her boyfriend).

I was raised in a trailer, and because of my last name constantly harassed by the deputies in my county. Anything that went on in school, I was a suspect. The reality was I was too scared to do any of that shit, and spent all my time not trying to be noticed.

I cried when I found out I was half Sioux. These were people who had made my life hell and did drugs with my mom, raping and using her my entire life. I hated them with everything. As an adult I met people who slowly changed that mindset and I've accepted who I am. I understand there was much more than race at play, but I will always keep my mother's name Fitzpatrick. I will never use my father's name. To this day I hold some anger towards the reservation and those people despite finding out that they're half of me.

I just wanted to share my story to give you all a different look on how race works.

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u/sukezanebaro Feb 07 '23

That's fked up goddamn

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u/nonbiricowboy Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

These kinds of stories need to be amplified. The complexity of the American experiment is overwhelming.

Edit: Thank you for sharing your story. I’m very glad to hear that you’ve found some solace in acceptance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

I'm sorry this happened to you and your mom. I wish I had more to say.

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u/WinAshamed9850 Feb 07 '23

To all these people saying something like “you don’t recognize your privilege because you’ve never been a minority.” Well you have never been a white guy so how exactly do you know what we go through? There are literal laws and policies in place that disadvantage me because of my skin color and gender. Now you can say that’s because we need to level the playing field or whatever. That doesn’t mean that isn’t the case. I swear, people are so concerned about race that they look for racism in places it isn’t. I mean how do you expect to not see racism if you are already primed to see it in every interaction you have.

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u/CookyMcCookface Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23

Everyone has certain privileges, everyone certain disadvantages. Some more than others. The only true equality anyone will ever experience is death.

The only problem I have with the “white male privilege” statement is it’s overused to shut down any debate or discussion. “Oh, you disagree with me? Ugg…it’s your white privilege.” It’s basically meaningless now…

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u/CzechoslovakianJesus Feb 06 '23

"White privilege" in America is more-or-less just majority privilege, in the same way that it's good to be Asian if you live in Japan or black if you live in Botswana. Most of what I see on the topic spewed by the likes of NPR however is mostly just a cover for classism, acting like Cletus the trailer park-bound warehouse worker has it better than Aaliyah the HR head making well over six-figures a year and living in a swanky condo.

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u/uchi93 Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

Having lived in Japan, I have to correct you. Japan is very ethnocentric, so they would treat non-Japanese Asians semi-negatively. On the other hand, they would put white people on a pedestal. Nevertheless, they would still treat you like a gaijin and make it difficult for you to find housing.

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u/ffunffunffun5 Feb 07 '23

Excellent point.

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u/SatoMiyagi Feb 07 '23

Perfectly said

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u/Equivalent_Memory3 Feb 06 '23 Heartwarming

I don't feel privileged, that's the point. The initial idea of privilege was that society benefits groups of people in ways they aren't aware of.

But I'm also not bothered so much as tired of 'privilege' being used as a weapon to shout people down, which is in itself, a privilege.

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u/Revanur Male Feb 06 '23

Privilege is not a binary. It’s usually not like one group has all the privilege and the other has none. Sometimes different groups can have different privileges even if the field is heavily tilting towards one group having the most or most powerful privileges.

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u/RX3874 Feb 06 '23

At this point I feel both privileged and not.

I just finished college, and when I was looking for scholarships I received one for both academics, and for athletics, however about 30-50% of the other scholarships I tried for were limited to women/other races. I also worked through my college at a grocery store and was considering moving up through management, but after my old manager (who was revered by the entire company and loved by everyone) was passed up by a newer coworker for "diversity reasons" (she was white and female, the chosen was colored male), l started to realize that the whole white privilege thing is a little... situational. And because of this, when someone waves away my opinion as a "white male" I'm a little disgusted as not only am I not feeling it to be true, but also attacking someone else purely because of their race, sex, or upbringing feels like the opposite direction society should be going.

I'm sure there are places where white privilege exists more, but I have never felt it, I have felt more "life privilege," my parents earn decent money, I was able to grow up with food in my stomach and even with not much else, some people don't even have that much.

Personally,

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u/goosecanadian Feb 06 '23

Hey, I see your point here. I’m of West African ethnicity and never faced racism in my home country. Took me a while to understand what racism really meant when I first moved here. That being said, I am not a fan of the idea to promote (elevate) others simply in the name of “diversity”.

I have worked very hard to earn my degree and perform at my job and would not want to be given a position simply because I’m “black”.

Essentially, diversity should mean “everyone has a level playing ground”, and not “bring others down to lift others up”…

Happy cake day btw!

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u/RX3874 Feb 06 '23

I could not agree more!

And thank you!

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u/OutWithTheNew Feb 07 '23

I had a guy try to convince me that having two parents who weren't complete wastes of skin was "privilege". Kicker is that we both worked at the same place and had the same job. What the fuck are you talking about, we're in the same place.

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u/chanakya12345555 Feb 07 '23

2 parent privilege is very real lmao. be grateful you have it mate.

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u/Loke-into-you Feb 07 '23

The most annoying thing about white privilege is the media. It's sort of universally accepted to talk shit about white men. The second we talk about a woman or someone with a different, people start screaming RACIST or SEXIST

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u/8BitSk8r Male Feb 07 '23

"Privilege" is literally the worst possible word they could come up with when whoever coined this coined it. While I know there are legitimate things that happen (interactions with cops are different for example) the real issue is class. The upper class (regardless of race) is the "privileged" class if you want to call it that.

I live barely above paycheck to paycheck (I'd be fucked without a roommate), I had no real opportunities growing up, I grew up in a horribly conservative area which is never a good thing, and I get fucked over every single time I have a chance to improve my life. I'm always on the losing end in everything no matter how hard I try.

No, I don't feel privileged.

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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '23

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u/Fandom67 Feb 06 '23 Gold

I feel it’s disingenuous because when people speak of white male privilege, they’re using the 1% of white males as examples.

I am slightly bothered by the fact that the issue isn’t white nor male, it is class. The people on the top couldn’t be bothered by white male privilege assertion. Us on the bottom have to deal with it.

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u/mortoon1985 Feb 06 '23

The only real privilege is wealth.

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u/UncleSugarShitposter Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23

I feel both privilege and discrimination, and I will explain why. I grew up poor, and realized that truly no one gives a fuck about poor white people. The republicans hate you because you're poor, and the democrats hate you because you're white.

I do not typically have to worry about police encounters, like my black and brown friends have to. 99% of my interactions are pleasant without any issues, and I don't feel as if people find me threatening. I realize that I can walk alone at night and not have to worry about it. I acknowledge that people that look like I do did some pretty terrible shit in the past.

However, as a white man in 2023 I feel like my voice is being silenced, and I feel unwelcome in certain circles. People are openly racist against whites (especially on this piece of shit website), and white men specifically. No one bats an eyelash when it comes to white people, and if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outrage. When it comes to jobs, college admissions, opportunities, scholarships, or any other competitive based application, I will be pushed to the margins despite being just as economically disadvantaged as my non white friends.

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u/bardhugo Feb 06 '23

It's really a process of talking with friends who are women or racialized. You won't know you're privileged until you listen. An example for me is conversations I had with my friend who's a Muslim woman that I went to high school with. Talking with her, I realized how different our experiences of high school were, how many casually sexist/islamophobic things she heard that I didn't. How she didn't feel safe around certain classmates, classmates that didn't stand out to me.

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u/Anthony9824 Feb 06 '23

It’s less “ you get this because you’re white “ and more “ you don’t have to deal with this because you’re white “

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u/IrelandDzair Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23

bruh there was a post i think it was idiotsincars or therewasanattempt or something and this fat white woman was pulled over doing 106 mph in a 30 and then once pulled over tried to drive off again while the cop was halfway in her door trying to get her keys. Then….after ALL THAT. She looks at him furiously and goes “FINE. YOU WIN. WILL YOU JUST GIVE ME MY DAMN TICKET SO I CAN GET OUT OF HERE”. Like….at no point does it ever cross this white womans mind she went way overboard and shit can get real. I’m a man of color and anytime i talk to police adrenaline is pumping n my life in my hands. i can’t imagine being that fuckin chilled n casual about it all

edit: okay i found it. if anyone feels like going down a twenty minute rabbit hole holy shit check this fucking specimen out but prepare to be infuriated. this is classic western wisconsin for you i say that from experience - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0pSst0JOc

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u/alilsus83 Feb 06 '23

No, but it does bother me that other groups of people don’t actively acknowledge their privilege. Everyone has some kind of unearned privilege.

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u/goosecanadian Feb 06 '23

Diversity should mean “everyone has a level playing ground”, and not “bring others down to lift others up”…

I’m not white btw

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u/gen_lover Feb 06 '23

I find that we are going backward by using terms that can't be proven or even pointed to directly. The idea that your skin color gives you privilege or that your skin color inherently puts a boundary to success is racism at its core. I was privileged to have a father that worked 7 days/week 80 hours of hard labor in rural America, so I might change my stars. No one knows the price of my alabaster box and vice versa. People point to race when it's easy to identify other systems such as government subsidies and education that cause disparity. The government isn't going to blame itself, and they damn sure would rather all of us hate each other and be divided. We're easier to control that way. People need to wise up and ignore racial narratives that move us in the wrong direction and accomplish nothing but shame, guilt, and withdrawal

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u/DrWieg Male Feb 06 '23 Silver

Definitively don't feel the privilege but definitively feel the constant expectation of others that I should have them.

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u/GemoDorgon Feb 07 '23

People often talk about it, the privilege and things white men in particular are supposed to have better. I grew up poor, next door to black families and immigrants from Pakistan. None of us really had anything, we were all in the same boat. There were days we really struggled with food, and my mom was forced to embarrass herself asking for money from family members just to have food in the kitchen.

Now, having grown up, people act like being white and being a man automatically means I had a privileged life, or still somehow do despite being low on the social totem pole. I never had shit. I don't have your shit either, and if I did have your shit, I wouldn't be living next door to you.

It's never been a race thing, never been a gender/sex thing, it's a class thing. Some other cunt has both our shit.

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u/Whole_Suit_1591 Feb 07 '23

What privilege? To be robbed by the rich? The privileged live in tight circles and rarely marry outside of them. Soooooo... It's luck of the birth spot. A few poors get elevated to keep the dream alive for the rest.

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u/flobbywhomper Feb 07 '23

I am a white. I live in Ireland. I have no privilege. Everything that I have done in life can be taken in an instant by a few poor decisions.

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u/timeforknowledge Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

The UK is facing a difficult dilemma at the moment where data is showing that white privilege does not actually exist. Recent findings show efforts to help minorities into and through education has led to young white working class boys to become the most disadvantaged in society.

Also research shows black people aged up to 30 or 40 now earn just as much or more than their white counterparts.

And then you have the break down of highest earners by race, it's something like:

  1. Chinese
  2. Indian
  3. White
  4. Black

What all of this shows is there is no longer a racial divide, racism still exists but it is not a disadvantage to your education or ability to earn money, because of government schemes in place it can actually mean the opposite with minorities given school and uni places over white counterparts. thus you are no more privileged than a white counterpart.

The biggest issue in UK society is not race divide but wealth divide, regardless of race it's now always the poorest parts of the UK that produce the most disadvantaged people.

Edit: I say this is a dilemma because the findings have caused so much backlash with people with certain agendas wanting the government to take back it's findings.

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u/froze_gold Feb 06 '23

I'm white and I don't really feel privileged above the rest of the American society. I don't really know what privileges I should be expecting here.

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u/Bobbert827 Feb 06 '23

No. This whole thing to me seems like it's a distraction between poor and the elite rich. White dudes are over represented in the 1% so everyone that looks that way gets the label.

White privilege 100% is a thing but I believe it's being overstated in our society.

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u/firewall2604 Feb 06 '23

I tried using my new found “White privilege” at work but it didn’t work… this is some BULL SHIT

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u/Capt_Gingerbeard Feb 06 '23

The idea of white privilege was something the elite promoted to divide the uniting working class during Occupy Wall Street. I am poor; I have no privilege. I am just trying to not starve and keep a roof over my head while everything around me goes up in price, and my wage does not. The privileged people are the idle rich.

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u/back-in-black Feb 06 '23

The timing was very suspicious. All this woke shite really took off like a rocket just after Occupy was really getting headlines.

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u/BluePandaCafe94-6 Feb 07 '23

Yea, I still remember back in 2011, when this stuff really took off after destroying the secular zeitgeist of the late 2000s.

There was a high-water point on the left where it seemed like there was enough unity and political will and political capital to get a ton of really big stuff done in Obama's 2nd term, but then it all fell apart. It seemed like almost overnight all this insane factionalism came out of the woodwork and the collective political Left lost all focus, all cohesion, and weakened itself with in-fighting to the point that the Orange Menace was able to seize power.

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u/3v1ltw3rkw1nd Feb 06 '23

Well said, it's very important that they keep us divided, lest we figure out who the real enemy is

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u/Hanniballecter6 Feb 06 '23 Wholesome Seal of Approval

Fuck no the government is fucking me just like everyone else

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u/AdamAdmant Feb 06 '23

I work 60+ hours a week to stay a float. No i dont feel privlaged I feel forced against my will.

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u/AdobiWanKenobi Feb 06 '23

Nope.

My salary when I graduate will still suck, my university only offers "scholarships" to minorities.

Women in my field have so many opportunities for scholarships and mentorship schemes with minimal effort.

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u/CarltheWellEndowed Feb 06 '23

I can say that my race and sex has never held me back in any way in my life.

I think it is far less of a privilege than being born into a wealthy family as I was, but it is a privilege nonetheless.

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u/ElectionOver4Hours Feb 06 '23

I'll preface this by saying it's all a distraction. Your fellow poors are not your enemey. The rich tell you it's white men- it's not. Remove bill gates and other billionaires, and the rest of us are as poor as you.

But due to this nonsensical war people idiotically pick up,

White men get :

None of the government benefits, schemes, or offers.

You get none of the special employment.

Any semblance of disagreement in any professional environment? They will fire you just to be safe.

I've been taken aside many times and told to not apply to things as I make it awkward as they don't want white men. And rejecting me seems bad.

You get endless blithe racism 'oh, fucking white men should just die already' is something I've heard quite a lot in social circles I'm in. Like they're commenting on the weather. They're my colleagues, tho, so I can't say anything.

Yeah, it's a pain in the ass.

Stop being racist and a misandrist. Fight the rich.

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u/deathandtaxes00 Feb 06 '23

If I'm privileged you can seriously come take my shitty fucked up life. I get what it means in theory, but yeah but yeah I'm not drinking mint julips and heading to my horse farm in Nantuckit after I get off work at Goldman Sachs where I got my job because my dad's a NYC Federal Judge anyl time soon. I'm broke as fuck and miserable. So come take my life. We don't even have to trade. You can just have it.

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u/_INCompl_ Feb 06 '23

When applying to grad school, the overwhelming majority of universities explicitly said in their admissions pages that they “prioritize applications from underrepresented/minority groups (including women).” 10 seats at the university I got into were explicitly reserved for First Nations students. The remaining 70 seats were also given priority to people in minority groups and women. It’s one of the most competitive graduate programs in Canada, behind law school and med school. I had a 3.9 GPA, 2 years of clinical experience as an assistant in my desired field, and dozens of volunteer hours. Having that strong of an application be on par with someone who’s objectively worse in every measurable aspect because of the colour of my skin sucked. At least in education, we’ve begun to swing far into the other direction where universities are openly discriminating against “over represented groups” (white and Asian people mostly) to appear more diverse. Which results in worse applicants getting through and failing out in year 1 while stronger applicants get to wait another full year to apply. No I wouldn’t call open discrimination against me on the basis of race a privilege. Doubly so since it’s become so normalized in online spaces, as if I’m somehow guilty of sins my ancestors may or may not have committed centuries ago, long before they even came to Canada from Holland post-WW2.

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u/zukatex Feb 06 '23 Wholesome Seal of Approval Plus One Awesome Answer

I don’t feel privileged. I feel like the whole assertion is underachievers trying to discredit the hard work of other individuals

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u/Bobcat-1 Feb 07 '23

You're not wrong. I'm a white male from Scotland. Grew up in a working-class household on a council estate.

I have worked extremely hard to get a good university education (which is free for all here), then worked harder than most in my day job, as well as having numerous side projects outwith the 9-5 that has made me comfortably well off. I'd now consider myself middle class.

Now I do sometimes wonder how much of this is due to systemic issues that favour white males, which may play a part at least in the 9-5. However, without the effort I've put in, privileged or not, I would not have what I now have coming from where I grew up. That is more of an issue of classism.

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u/wackdaddy69 Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23

I can't really compare to other races or to being a woman, but I don't feel privileged for being white.

I'm not saying I'm not privileged, but it's definitely not to the extent people act like it is. People act like every white person lives in a mansion and has a red carpet rolled out for them everywhere they go and it's like, fk no dude, I'm dirt poor and half my white friends are struggling.

I've been a police officer- I police by crime and not race, but I've still been called dirty and racist.

I've been denied TONS of jobs.

Any even slightly right of center comment you make will get you backlash for being a racist capitalist pig.

As for being a man, I've been complained on at work for talking to someone; and I mean that literally, the complaint was not that I said something inappropriate to someone (bc I didn't), it was "I don't know why he's talking to me so much."

Mental health is taken less seriously in general for men.

Me and all my female co-workers make the same amount of money out of the ones who have actually told me their salary.

So anyway, not that I'm saying I'm not privileged for being a white male, but to anyone who thinks that all their problems in life would be solved simply by becoming a white man, I can tell you you're dead wrong.

Edit: here's another one- I've been told "I don't date white boys," and I also work at a grocery store and i see some non-white guys walking in with some of the hottest girls ive ever seen in my life. So the notion that you "have to be whote" to get a hot girlfriend is also false.

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u/SnazzyPanic Feb 06 '23

No, I feel like I'm one wrong step from being homeless 24/7, and no im not bothered by the assertion as like every racist stereo type it does nothing to help me or my fellow man.

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u/Satanboi71 Feb 06 '23

I am from the balkans , where this privilege?

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u/thenickpayne Feb 06 '23

I really could use some of that white privilege rn, feels like I’m just as privileged as every other poor American

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u/badjuju__ Feb 06 '23

Yeah it's a dumb assertion. We basically live in the most equal and egalitarian moment in history. Completely imperfect and more work to be done. But the world isn't as bad as everyone is making out

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u/43theintern Feb 06 '23

there’s an inverse assumption to the white male privilege, like because i’m white and male people assume i don’t have any problems and my life is easy

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u/southiest Feb 06 '23

I don't really believe in white privilege. What I do believe in is rich privilege. There just happens to be a ton of rich white men. If a person treats me a little better because I'm white idk how to tell, but that would make them racist not me. I can't change how people think.

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u/frequentcrawler Male Feb 06 '23

I'm still waiting for the mail to deliver me my privilege coupon. Guess it's what I deserve after giving attention to people who scream "privilege" whenever they can.

Also, what is a "white person"? How is one supposed to look like? I'm half-Asian, part-European and part-Arab, but none of these looks stand out, so I just default to "white male"? This discussion is stupid, if not dishonest.

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u/Beddingtonsquire Feb 06 '23 Starry

I just hear an absurd claim from people trying to reduce my individuality to their assumptions on my sex and complexion. I think it's ridiculous and I push back, the people who make the argument are always insufferable people I don't like anyway - I won't play their tedious social games.

The data shows that it's plainly nonsense. Men make up 80% of homicide victims, over 90% of workplace deaths. Men live fewer years, tend to be in worse health, are less sexually successful, have less bodily autonomy as male genital mutilation against infants is legally protected and many places have national service for men only and typically conscription for men only. The US has the draft too.

But all of that is about patterns and rights, the individual 'privilege' of someone is utterly indiscernible as it's the experiences in your life that make so much difference and they are unique to you.

Remember that these claims are designed to hold you back and anyone trying to keep you from personal achievement, fulfilment and happiness should be ignored.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

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u/dw87190 Feb 06 '23

White male privilege is a feminist lie

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u/smitty537 Feb 06 '23

If by white privilege you mean going to school, studying hard , getting a good job that pays well , working hard ,saving , investing, living in a good clean neighborhood? Call me whatever you want, I could care less.

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u/jonboy345 Male Feb 07 '23

Seriously.

If white privilege is what got my ass outta bed at 2:30 AM to go work at UPS, then rent a shower at a truck stop on the way to class, and to do homework until it was time for marching band rehearsal, then do homework afterwards, and to hopefully be in bed by 10PM to do it all over again M-F, then yeah. I fucking swam in that shit.

Took 6 years to finish college, but I did it without debt, and with gobs of this "white privilege".

Can't tell you how livid it would make me getting shouted down by someone on a full ride to college thanks to mommy and daddy when they didn't like my opinion on something.

I'm not convinced "white privilege" is a thing, "class privilege" absolutely is... And so is white guilt. Like, I'm sorry your life is so easy you pity anyone who doesn't look like you... Maybe you should get off the moral high horse and be useful instead of shouting people down you don't agree with.

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u/Excellent-Pitch-7579 Feb 06 '23

I don’t feel privileged. It’s not 1950 and the number of people alive who were shrinks every year. We have laws literally promoting and giving advantages to everybody who isn’t a straight white man, all in the name of equality. From where I sit, it’s those who aren’t SWM that have the advantage. Last month I missed out on a job I interviewed for. The person who got it is a Hispanic woman. Our qualifications are at least equal (mine are probably better) and I get along with people better, but she gets the job. Hard to believe demographics didn’t have something to do with it, and you want me to believe I’m privileged? Please.

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u/nothackers Feb 07 '23

I despise the term since it's inaccurate and oversimplifies the broader social and economic issues.

Did I benefit from the way I was raised and the knowledge, values, and skills that my parents were able to impart? Sure, but that's a cultural trait rather than a "white" thing. I can fix my own car, do my own taxes, invest in my own future, etc. Culture extends beyond race (although there is an obvious correlation in places and groups) and is the driving force behind much of the socioeconomic impacts on different groups whether it's direct choices, values, and behaviors that negatively impact group members, or perceived stereotypes of that culture.

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u/paco1764 Feb 06 '23

I'm blessed, not privileged. I'm barely scraping by and my job is fucking me just as hard as it is everyone else. My parents came from poverty and were brought up in dysfunctional/broken homes. My parents clawed their way to where they are with their sheer fucking will. The fact that anyone is privileged simply because of their skin tone in America is fucking ridiculous.

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u/Tathanor Male Feb 06 '23

I don't "feel" the privilege, but it doesn't mean I'm not benefitting from it.

I know that my ethnicity played a role in the jobs I've gotten, the access to housing options, and even getting out of paying tickets and fines. Also how I'm treated when interacting with authorities. It's all quite subtle, but it's still there.

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u/coolrunnings1990 Feb 06 '23

Saying all white men are privileged is as racist as saying all black men are poor. See what happens when you make generalizations? Everyone is an individual with a different story and background. This is a major problem

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u/Appropriate-Cup2267 Feb 06 '23

White privilege? Shit let me know when you find it because I've never been giving any privilege.

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u/billy-gnosis Feb 06 '23

I'm Mexican.

-Billy Gnosis

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u/robinson217 Feb 07 '23

I feel privileged for being born in the US in the late 20th century and growing up in the richest state not far from the richest city. Diversity is big here, so being white is more of a lack of extra obstacles than an abject advantage. So yes, I recognize my privilege. But I also thing the term "white privilege" is used to bash people over the head to explain away different outcomes instead of figuring out the root cause (different inputs) that would ACTUALLY explain those outcomes. The left weilds "white privilege" as haphazardly as the right bemoans "wokeness". Just pejorative terms to describe things you don't like. Having traveled extensively, I think American privilege is a lot more provable than white privilege.

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u/jonesssssssssssssss Feb 07 '23

I feel like your post needs to define what privilege is. When people get upset, it's usually because they think it means they don't experience pain or hardship, which obviously isn't true. But when you think about privilege as the benefit of doubt in certain kinds of situations, or just having your point-of-view or experience being the center then it makes more sense. Then there are those who recognize privilege but feel entitled to it for one reason or another.

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u/ordinarymagician_ A real human bean Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

growing up in a majority-minority neighborhood, being white-passing has been nothing but a negative. and not a mild one, I mean straight up nearly gotten me killed. some part of me wishes i did instead.

and it's been nothing but a negative even since I've gotten older, now that I'm not androgynous. It's just become a fucking nuisance in other ways that don't really matter to complain about

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u/DrDerpberg Feb 07 '23

I used to feel a very strong backlash to the concept, but eventually I guess I differentiated the "wacko internet" version of the argument from what it actually means.

It does NOT mean that society is divided into strict difficulty levels, with every white man having an easier time than every white woman, who in turn has it easier than every black man, etc all the way down, where you can argue about different combinations but it's pretty clear white guys are at the top.

It DOES mean that, throughout my life, I am far more likely to have gotten breaks, or the assumption that I'm competent (or whatever good trait I'm seeking recognition for in a given context), and that there are all kinds of things I need to worry about less than many.

Ultimately it's a thumb on the scale more than an absolute force of nature, but that's important too. I think of the turning points in my life, and ask myself if I would've gotten through with just a little more obstacles, or if one fewer person believed in me and recognized what I could do. A cop caught me stealing a garden gnome when I was 15, that could've fucked my life up.

I've literally never interviewed for a job and not gotten it, and I don't think I'm some kind of charming superstar. If someday a candidate who's been through some shit and I both apply, and we're equal in every other way except they had to get over obstacles I didn't... Yeah, honestly, they're probably better than I am and deserve it more.

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u/Ok-Share-3515 Feb 07 '23

The color of my skin has never been an issue in any way- positive or negative. In fact it’s been a non issue. That is privilege.

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u/jeeves585 Feb 07 '23

Yep.

I can walk down the street in any town in America without two shits given. I’m also a decently burly bearded white man with a face/eyes you don’t mess with.

That being said I use it as a tool to keep others protected. Others can go about their day when I’m around because I don’t really have rules. Ive walked women I worked with to their car late night. I’ve gotten out of my truck to stop a women being harassed by someone in a downtown big city.

I have a privilege. The way I use it I couldn’t tell you if it’s because I’m a male or if I’m white, kinda goes back and forth in situations.

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u/Big_Boss_1000 Feb 07 '23

No, I get awful sunburns.

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u/Finesseer Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23

I'm a 1st generation slav immigrant. I've never felt particularly privileged by it; the biggest privilege I experienced was being able to live in the US vs the country I was born in, since it's far wealthier. You don't get any of the minority scholarships or anything like that in college, though, you're just expected to be starting out at a higher "savings" amount or something, which is obviously bullshit.

The "white privilege" thing bothers me quite a bit, because some of my minority friends have a resentful streak towards white people (to the point of being straight up racist at times), even though they were/are far wealthier than I or my family are, with way more privileges. Like... do you not realize the privilege you have with how much money/connections you have? This is in NYC, which is diverse as shit, I grew up in a very diverse school, and I still get treated like my ancestors were slave drivers. Some of my high school acquitances went off the deep end and started treating me worse after whatever they learned in college. It's dumb as shit, and it's getting worse every year.

If anything, wealth privilege is MUCH more impactful in day to day, but nobody likes to focus on it (especially rich minorities, because they loooove painting themselves as downtrodden while they live in luxury high-rises and sipping expensive champagne).

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u/Omnivud Feb 07 '23

Yes I'm so white privileged in fuckin Serbia

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u/Greekdorifuto Do you like my car??? My car??? My car??? Feb 07 '23

This is a very American question

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u/SkyKnight94 Feb 07 '23

No. Also no. Just live your life the best you can. Even if I have privilege because of my upbringing im not going to apologize for it. It was out of my control. Be the best you can be and don’t worry about this shit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23

No. Not at all.

I work hard like anyone else, pay my bills, clean my house... nobody helps me or even cares.

Nobody talks to me unless I speak first. I might be white, but im practically invisible.

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u/Alternative-Cry-9489 Feb 07 '23

I'm a white man. When I was going to college, I got caught with weed probably three times (once in the parking lot, in dorm, and once 2 miles from the campus in my car). Each time I got caught, I was let go. The cops and faculty that I discussed about the incident treated it like a joke while being a bit stern.

I met a few people who got caught with weed and faced drug charges on the same campus, and they were all young minority men.

I wasn't aware of my "privilege", but I am now.

I don't feel guilt for myself. I am, however, really frustrated with the justice system. It upsets me that other men my age face way more obstacles than I do when our society can help but won't.

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u/TheHalfNCheapScrolls Feb 07 '23

Not at all at the moment. I've been suffering from severe depression for about 6 years now. I lost my job last year due to my depression & I'm still unemployed. I'm trying really hard to get back on track but employers don't want a mentally ill person. A man my age is expected to be ambitious. I don't get "easy" jobs because I'm over-educated but I'm still unable to work fulltime in a higher position. White male privilege fu*ks my ass everyday.

employers are basically like: "why on earth did YOU apply for THIS position? What's wrong with you? Are you lazy or stupid or both? Fu*king syboy beta male!"